1 Peter 2: 6-8

1 Peter 2
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and,“A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”

The argument made here is that this text read with Isaiah 8:12-15 shows that Jesus is God. So let’s look at that scripture:

Isaiah 8:12-15
11 For Jehovah spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,
12 Say ye not, A conspiracy, concerning all whereof this people shall say, A conspiracy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be in dread thereof .
13 Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many shall stumble thereon, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Okay so the argument is made that Jesus is called a stone and so is God.

The first obvious thing to point out is that when God decides to become something such as a rock of offense, he personally doesn’t turn up as that rock, but sends a messenger. We see in other scriptures that God is light, yet he sends Jesus into the world and Jesus proclaims that “he is the light of the world”. When Jesus is about to leave this world he passes on this mantle to us, (the Church) when he proclaimed, “You are the light of the world” in Matthew 5:14.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.…

So when God sent light into this dark world, he sent a messenger. If we conclude that God is light and Jesus is the light means that Jesus is God, then you also have to believe that we (the Church) are God. Thus if God refers to himself as a stone and sends Jesus who is identified as the stone, then that is not a valid proof that the verse means that Jesusis God.

Further, there is another main point that needs to be understood here. When you look at Isaiah 8:12-15, it becomes very clear that YHWH is actually talking about another as the rock and not himself. Read closely.

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”

Notice the words, “I lay a stone”. I guess that Trinitarians just read it as “I am this stone”. But it does not say that or refer to that.
Now notice the words “a chosen and precious cornerstone”. If God is the stone, then ask yourself who is the one who CHOSE the stone?

Again this so-called Trinity proof verse is easily exposed when you decide to read the text carefully and without bias. Obviously, our brother Peter doesn’t support the view that Jesus is God when he talks about Jesus being the stone that causes people to stumble.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


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  • #758625
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @terraricca

    you said:

    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE SON TO BE EXISTING FROM THE SAME TIME OF HIS FATHER ,FOR HIS FATHER OBVIOUSLY COMES FIRST THEN THE SON ;AND SO AS SCRIPTURES SAYS THE SON HAS BEEN CREATED FROM THE FATHER ;THIS IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND LIKE ME MY SON COME FROM ME AND SO HIS BORN AFTER ME NOT BEFORE OR DID NOT EXIST WHILE I WAS BORN ,OF CAUSE THIS IS A MEN MADE EXAMPLE

    It is possible for the Son to have existed eternally WITHIN His Father. The difference between the Father and the Son is that the Father was begotten of no one. The Son was begotten of the Father.

    Your man made example is limited to finite beings, those who did not eternally exist. The Father did eternally exist. On a side note, speaking of human beings, did you realize that half of your chromosomes that came from your mother were in her ovum in the egg that was used to make you existed from her birth?

    Also, the scripture does not say the Son was created, it says He was born. He had to exist beforehand in order to be born, btw.

    #758641
    terraricca
    Participant

    @ kathy

    It is possible for the Son to have existed eternally WITHIN His Father. The difference between the Father and the Son is that the Father was begotten of no one. The Son was begotten of the Father.

    what is possible and what is not possible to God is of no concerns to men ;but what God can do or not do to men is very important to us all ,for either we have or have not a future ,

    now as for God not having a beginning we all know that ,and so the son as been created /born/bring forth /ect
    let not go beyond of what is written ,for if we do then we may not need the scriptures at all ,they would become void in our own dreams ,

    Your man made example is limited to finite beings, those who did not eternally exist. The Father did eternally exist. On a side note, speaking of human beings, did you realize that half of your chromosomes that came from your mother were in her ovum in the egg that was used to make you existed from her birth?

    the example i give was a man made one ,and what i meant was that the father is there before the son ;as for how God has made us to reproduced it is a marvel in itself ,but that does not mean that God is a man , we know that in nature we have all the possible means of procreation within all the different species,(insects/mammals/fish/ cells/even stars/ ect)so let not measure God through his own creation ,but wonder by seeing it .

    #758932
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @terricca

    You say such and such is impossible and then you make a comment about what is possible or impossible is of no concern to men.

    When you say that eternal existence of the Son is impossible, you deny a great thing, it is no small thing. You ought to be at least open to the possibility.

    #758933
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi Kathy

    You say such and such is impossible and then you make a comment about what is possible or impossible is of no concern to men.

    i told you that what is of God does not implicates us ,but what God as for us in store does

    When you say that eternal existence of the Son is impossible, you deny a great thing, it is no small thing. You ought to be at least open to the possibility.

    Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
    Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together

    can we ignore those scriptures ? if you can ,I do not

    #760575
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @terricca
    Your passage in Col 1 actually doesn’t dismiss an eternal existence at all. The word ‘firstborn’ does not mean first created.
    If you understood the Son as eternal also it would help you lay a firm foundation as you study.

    If you don’t want to ignore scriptures, well that is good…look at this:
    1 John 1
    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

    #760636
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Yes the Word.

    The Word that was with God and was God.

    Did you think it meant the man from Nazareth before he was anointed?

    #760813
    terraricca
    Participant

    HI KATHY

    Your passage in Col 1 actually doesn’t dismiss an eternal existence at all. The word ‘firstborn’ does not mean first created.
    If you understood the Son as eternal also it would help you lay a firm foundation as you study.

    If you don’t want to ignore scriptures, well that is good…look at this:
    1 John 1
    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

    WELL IT DOES NOT DISMISS IT FOR THE WORD “FIRST” SAYS IT ALL RIGHT WHEN YOU FIRST YOU ARE NOT THE ONE BEFORE THE FIRST RIGHT ? YES

    AND ONE MORE THING ;”so that in everything he might have the supremacy. ”

    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
    Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
    Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

    CAN YOU TELL ME WHO MADE HIM SO THAT JESUS WOULD HAVE “SUPREMACY IN EVERYTHING” IS IT NOT GOD HIS FATHER ?YES
    AND SO IS NOT THE SON THE FIRST AFTER HIS OWN FATHER THAT IS ? YES

    SO YOUR SPECULATION ARE JUST OPINIONS TO DELUDE THE WEAK IN THE TRUTH OF GOD ,THIS IS BAD ,

    #760830
    terraricca
    Participant

    HI KATHY

    If you don’t want to ignore scriptures, well that is good…look at this:
    1 John 1
    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

    DO YOU REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT JOHN SAYS ? DON’T PICK AND CHOSE BUT START FROM ; “THE BEGINNING ”

    #760925
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @terricca
    If someone is a firstborn, obviously there was someone in existence who gave birth to the firstborn. In a similar matter, if someone gave birth to their firstborn, that firstborn had to exist beforehand. Therefore, being called a firstborn doesn’t prove that the one born wasn’t always in the Father waiting to be born. I believe in one eternal unbegotten God and one eternal begotten God. You seem to believe that you can pray in the name of a God (Jesus) who is created and not eternal. Jehovah does not allow His followers to pray in the name of another god.

    1 John 1 clearly tells us that the Son is the eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning. Read it carefully.

    #760926
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan
    you said:

    Yes the Word.

    The Word that was with God and was God.

    Did you think it meant the man from Nazareth before he was anointed?

    That was in response to my question here:

    Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is the Lord Jesus Christ?

    So if Jesus is God and the Father is God, how many theos are there that we believe in and follow unto salvation?

    Also, to answer your question about Jesus before His anointing, He was God in the beginning…God with God. We are never told that He became God by His fleshly anointing. He ever was a theos. Inherently a theos…the Father. Inherently a theos…the Son.

    #761022
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Your choice.

    There are many gods and many lords.

    Join us and worship the God of Jesus and Israel and the sons of God.

     

    The Word was made flesh.

    Jesus already had a beginning -conceived of Mary

     

    #761226
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,
    Little children.
    Guard yourself from idols. 1jn5

    #761242
    terraricca
    Participant

    KATHY

    1 John 1 clearly tells us that the Son is the eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning. Read it carefully.

    1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

    HOW IS THAT ?

    #761392
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,
    God anointed JESUS OF NAZARETH with the Holy Spirit[acts 10]
    Not the infant Jesus nor was he anointed before birth.
    Don’t confuse the vessel with the contents

    #761558
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Your passage in Col 1 actually doesn’t dismiss an eternal existence at all. The word ‘firstborn’ does not mean first created.
    If you understood the Son as eternal also it would help you lay a firm foundation as you study.

    To be born means you have a parent or source. Thus the offspring cannot exist without the source but the source can without the offspring.

    So Jesus existence is determined by God, the same as all of us.

    But God’s existence is not subject to anyone or anything. He always was. He has always been.

    There is nothing in scripture that teaches that Jesus has always been.We are simply taught that the Word was with God in the beginning. What beginning. Well there are many beginnings. But this is talking about before the cosmos. It is not saying that both existed for all eternity. To draw that conclusion is to read your own preconceived ideas into the text.

    #761562
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is God the Father? Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is the Lord Jesus Christ?

    I will answer directly but will frame the context of my answer so you cannot take it out of context.

    I believe that there is a devil and that scripture says that Satan is the Devil. I believe that there is devil in scripture that is Judas Iscariot.

    Okay, now apply that correct understanding and Greek construct to God and Jesus.

    Yes there is one God the Father. Yes Jesus can also be called theos. So can others too. But there is one God the Father who is actually THE God. There are others who are legitimately called by the word theos, including sons of God and even Satan as the God of this world.

    So how many gods are there? Well for us there is one true God. But we also acknowledge as Paul did that there are indeed many gods and many lords. But for us there is one true God the Father. All others are either false or called theos because of their office etc.

    So take this back to the Devil. How many devils are there? Many. But there is one who is the actual Devil, that is Satan.

    Now here is the thing. I have said this many times and it is without question because I simply state what is in scripture. Yet something tells me that later on, you will try to get me to confess to two Gods or two as one God. But this post is sufficient for you.

    Up to you what you do with this truth. Believe it or reject it and divert away.

    #764632
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan

    @t8

    @terricca

    How many persons who are called theos somewhere in scripture must you believe in and follow to have everlasting life?

    All three of you, please answer this fundamental question. Thank you guys!

    #764648
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi Kathy

    GAL 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
    GAL 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.
    1TI 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    HEB 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

    HEB 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
    HEB 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

    #764995
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    You still have not answered the question

    Are you one of US?

    For us there is one God and one Lord…

    #765812
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    LU, we must believe in the one true God and his son.

    Only one of these is God himself. The other can be referred to as theos just the same as others can who are also most certainly not God himself.

    Your word games will not change the truth that the Father is the one true God and no amount of devious teaching will get me to break the first commandment.

    It is no wonder that many Jews have rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ. What they hear is Christians teaching them that God is triune. They know better than that. Many Jews today are now Atheists having rejected the Triune God false gospel. How about teaching that YHWH has sent his son as the messiah after the prophets? What is wrong with the truth? Oh how the foundation today is almost unrecognizable to what is written and what has been revealed.

    While the Jews have rejected the messiah, many Christians have rejected the one true God and replaced him for a God made in their own understanding. This is no light thing but a very serious issue. But both could come to the knowledge of truth if they repented and accepted the one true God sent his son into the world.

    Eternal life is to know this only true God and his son. If someone gets God’s identity wrong, then what is the real chance that they know God?

    If you thought your best friend was someone else, then could you argue that you really know your friend?

     

     

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