1 Peter 2: 6-8

1 Peter 2
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and,“A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”

The argument made here is that this text read with Isaiah 8:12-15 shows that Jesus is God. So let’s look at that scripture:

Isaiah 8:12-15
11 For Jehovah spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,
12 Say ye not, A conspiracy, concerning all whereof this people shall say, A conspiracy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be in dread thereof .
13 Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many shall stumble thereon, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Okay so the argument is made that Jesus is called a stone and so is God.

The first obvious thing to point out is that when God decides to become something such as a rock of offense, he personally doesn’t turn up as that rock, but sends a messenger. We see in other scriptures that God is light, yet he sends Jesus into the world and Jesus proclaims that “he is the light of the world”. When Jesus is about to leave this world he passes on this mantle to us, (the Church) when he proclaimed, “You are the light of the world” in Matthew 5:14.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.…

So when God sent light into this dark world, he sent a messenger. If we conclude that God is light and Jesus is the light means that Jesus is God, then you also have to believe that we (the Church) are God. Thus if God refers to himself as a stone and sends Jesus who is identified as the stone, then that is not a valid proof that the verse means that Jesusis God.

Further, there is another main point that needs to be understood here. When you look at Isaiah 8:12-15, it becomes very clear that YHWH is actually talking about another as the rock and not himself. Read closely.

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”

Notice the words, “I lay a stone”. I guess that Trinitarians just read it as “I am this stone”. But it does not say that or refer to that.
Now notice the words “a chosen and precious cornerstone”. If God is the stone, then ask yourself who is the one who CHOSE the stone?

Again this so-called Trinity proof verse is easily exposed when you decide to read the text carefully and without bias. Obviously, our brother Peter doesn’t support the view that Jesus is God when he talks about Jesus being the stone that causes people to stumble.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


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  • #748530
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan

    God the Son is the eternal offspring part of God the Father. Jesus is clearly called a theos in scripture, so is the Father. Being an eternal offspring ‘part’ of the Father would naturally make Him the same kind, hence two of the same eternal kind. In the position of ‘God’ to us there is the Father and the Son. They are eternal beings, one is the offspring part of the other. This really isn’t hard.

    @t8

    There are two eternal beings, one as the offspring part of the other. The one God, the Father, has within Him an offspring part who is like Him as in type of being and is given all things.

    Let’s make this simple…a pregnant women takes up one chair. How many human beings are on the chair? Is it one or is it two?? Both would be correct depending on the perspective and purpose of the situation. Her offspring is a part of her yet a distinct being from her and also the same type of being as her. God made that design.

    Thanks for your interest.

    #748565
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi LU,

    God the Son?

    Is this god in scripture?

    Who is the God that was in Christ?

    Was this god the Son of God or another god?

    #748648
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan

    Yes Nick, God the Son is in scripture:

    John 1:18

    No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

    #748683
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    For us there is one God and one lord..

    Are you one of US

    #748807
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Clearly she cannot be us Nick if there is one God the Father and one Lord the Lord Jesus Christ for us.
    She is one of them, not us by our brother Paul’s definition.

    #748808
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    LU, do you have any photos or other evidence since there is no scriptural support for your view?

    I agree that the logos was part of God, but the logos that was with God did not lessen the logos in God.

    Your view suggests that the logos in God is Jesus as an embryo, but wisdom was also an attribute of God that he begat before all. So was Jesus two embryos or is the the most obvious conclusion that the early Church fathers held, that the logos was and is an attribute of God, but from these God begat another to be with him.

    Attributes are not separate or other persons. Person means ‘a son’. You have no proof that Jesus spent 9 months or eternal months in the womb of God. Where do you get this stuff.

    Like I said, show us the proof, because scripture doesn’t talk in the way you do.

    #749107
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @t8


    @NickHassan

    It seems clear that there is one theos in scripture who is God the Father and another theos in scripture who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Nick and t8, please answer these two questions:

    Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is God the Father? Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is the Lord Jesus Christ?

    #749108
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @t8
    you said:

    LU, do you have any photos or other evidence since there is no scriptural support for your view?

    Do you not believe that Jesus is the literal son of God the Father? That is found throughout scripture. Wasn’t it you who was telling me that Jesus was/is the firstborn in a literal sense and now you say there is no evidence for my view that He is a literal son?

    I agree that the logos was part of God, but the logos that was with God did not lessen the logos in God.

    I am not sure what you mean when you say “lessen.” Do you think that birthing an offspring lessens the person who births the offspring? It doesn’t lessen them but instead, strengthens them. Have you not read that to be fruitful, you multiply, not subtract from or divide from and become less.

    Your view suggests that the logos in God is Jesus as an embryo, but wisdom was also an attribute of God that he begat before all. So was Jesus two embryos or is the the most obvious conclusion that the early Church fathers held, that the logos was and is an attribute of God, but from these God begat another to be with him.

    The term ‘logos’ and ‘wisdom’ are allegorical and refer to the literal son of God, as I understand it. Logos and wisdom (Prov. 8 and John 1) are not referring to attributes of God but to the eternal offspring of God who “communicates”(word) the mind (wisdom) of God to us.

    John 1:18
    No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father,
    has made God known.

    Attributes are not separate or other persons. Person means ‘a son’. You have no proof that Jesus spent 9 months or eternal months in the womb of God. Where do you get this stuff.

    Like I said, show us the proof, because scripture doesn’t talk in the way you do.

    Here is proof of Jesus being an eternal life from the beginning:

    1 John:
    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

    t8, it seems that you are unclear about what that eternal life was, which was with the Father? If so, let me introduce you to the eternal offspring…the theos in scripture who is our Lord Jesus Christ…the eternal offspring part of the theos in scripture who is God the Father.

    We can enjoy fellowship with the Father and the Son who are both eternal in every way, past and future.

    #749578
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,
    And was God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself?
    God in God??

    #749579
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,
    You confuse the Spirit of Christ with the man Jesus

    #750691
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan
    You asked:

    And was God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself?
    God in God?

    Answer my questions correctly and you will know:

    Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is God the Father? Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is the Lord Jesus Christ?

    I appreciate ya, Nick!

    #753520
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    I have little interest in theology or greek stuff.

    Intellectualism destroys faith

    #755516
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan
    Ok, I will help you. ‘Theos’ is Greek for ‘God/a god’. Now just substitute the English translation for the word ‘theos’ in this question:
    Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is God the Father? Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is the Lord Jesus Christ?

    2 Timothy 2:15

    Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

    #756221
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    If you knew the Lord and his word you would not entertain with intellectual theory.

    Is God at work in you to will and to do?

    Are you a god?

    #757496
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan

    Just answer the question Nick. I don’t believe theory is a part of it. The Hot Seat is waiting for you if you can’t answer it here then you can show us all that you do or do not have an answer for the question there. It is really a simple yes or no question.

    Also, you asked if I was a god…how silly…no, of course not.

    Here is the question again:

    Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is God the Father? Do you believe that there is a theos in scripture that is the Lord Jesus Christ?

    #757596
    terraricca
    Participant

    HI KATHY

    YES ON YOUR BOTH QUESTIONS , FOR THE FATHER HIS GOD ALMIGHTY AND BY THOSE CONDITION HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON IS A GOD ,NO PROBLEM THERE ,

    DT 10:17 “ For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
    PS 136:2 Give thanks to the God of gods,
    For His lovingkindness is everlasting.

    AND ONE OF THE GODS THAT GOD(THE FATHER OF ALL THINGS)IS GOD OVER IS HIS SON JESUS CHRIST THE “WORD”

    #757890
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Thanks Pierre,
    So would you say that it is possible that the Son always existed as the offspring part of the Father and then was begotten to participate with the Father in creating the cosmos and govern the cosmos?

    #757952
    terraricca
    Participant

    HI KATHY

    Thanks Pierre,
    So would you say that it is possible that the Son always existed as the offspring part of the Father and then was begotten to participate with the Father in creating the cosmos and govern the cosmos?

    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE SON TO BE EXISTING FROM THE SAME TIME OF HIS FATHER ,FOR HIS FATHER OBVIOUSLY COMES FIRST THEN THE SON ;AND SO AS SCRIPTURES SAYS THE SON HAS BEEN CREATED FROM THE FATHER ;THIS IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND LIKE ME MY SON COME FROM ME AND SO HIS BORN AFTER ME NOT BEFORE OR DID NOT EXIST WHILE I WAS BORN ,OF CAUSE THIS IS A MEN MADE EXAMPLE ,

    #758159
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,
    Would you like me to show you all the times THEOS is used in scripture and for how many different things?
    Can you not do this yourself?

    I am not a theology scholar so try someone else.
    This is not a theology site

    #758624
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @NickHassan

    you asked:

    Would you like me to show you all the times THEOS is used in scripture and for how many different things?

    No need to show me all the times it is used in scripture and how, Nick. I just want you to tell me if it is used for the Son who is called our one Lord Jesus Christ and for God the Father. That will be sufficient for now.

    Thanks for the offer though. 🙂

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