Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine 1 John 5:20 Page 76

1 John 5:20

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Read this part slowly:

“And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ.”

The true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father. Why?

Because it clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son.

Who is the son mentioned here? It is Jesus Christ.

Who is the one who is true that has a son? Well that has to be the Father because Jesus never had a son did he? If you hold the view that Jesus is the one true God in this verse, then you have to conclude that Jesus has a son called Jesus because the one who is true has a son called Jesus according to the verse.

So by this very simple, clear, and reasonable reading of the text, we can see that the Father is the one who is true and we are in the Father because we are in HIS son. That is the only way you can read this verse.

Do you need further proof? Well look at John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As you can see, the only true God is not Jesus Christ here either because the only true God is said to have sent Jesus Christ just like 1 John 5:20 says.

The next verse supports these two preceding verses and teaches that Jesus is not God, rather, that he was sent by God as confirmed in these two verses above.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

You have just been shown two or three witness verses that clearly state that God sent his son into the world and that this God who has a son is the only true God.

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Discussion

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  • June 8, 2012 at 8:25 am#301579
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ June 08 2012,18:27)
    ed,

    that is not an alteration. what is what the bible says,

    nick,

    before you ask, you should study first. go back to elementary school and study the different meanings of the word person


    Hi Jammin,

    Did you really think mans doctored words were “The Bible”?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    June 8, 2012 at 10:44 am#301588
    jammin
    Participant

    you are the one who is doctoring the bible

    why dont you make your own version to support your doctine that the word in john 1,1 is the HS? LOL

    June 9, 2012 at 5:34 pm#301744
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,

    Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
    “The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
    What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.

    But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
    The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
    And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
    getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.

    Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
    First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
    of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
    But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
    to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!

    When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
    “God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
    If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
    then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    June 10, 2012 at 1:32 am#301823
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (journey42 @ June 09 2012,01:37)

    Quote (terraricca @ June 08 2012,11:37)

    Quote (journey42 @ June 08 2012,17:44)

    Quote (terraria @ June 08 2012,05:00)

    Quote (journey42 @ June 08 2012,01:39)
    Hi Pierre

    No this is all future.  Boys and girls playing safely in the streets?  Men living to a very old age?  Marvelous in the eyes of the remnant?
    Strong nations coming to seek the Lord in Jerusalem?  At the moment they all want war?  And the USA has a different controlling agenda from what appears.

    Israel is not dwelling in safety, nor has for thousands of years.


    J42

    you follow main stream religion ,all those scriptures have been accomplished ,but you can believe what you want ,

    God is concerned not with the nations against him but the people of the nations that comes to him and his son to be saved ,this is what brings glory to the remnant and the son and his father ,

    you also said that God his not a person or being right ????

    this is untrue ,the fact that God his a spirit does not eliminate to be a person or being (as complex as it could be )


    Hi Pierre

    No I said the holy spirit was not a person or a being.  Not God.  God is a being.  We were made in his image.

    Israel as a nation has rejected their messiah, and because of this, salvation has gone out to the gentiles.  Jerusalem was destroyed in 70Ad, and even though they were given their land back in 1948, they have never been at peace.  They are the most hated nation in the world, especially by the muslim nations.  But the West are getting involved as well.  They have been attacked many times, and have never had peace.  They will not get peace until the Prince of Peace returns.  This is when there will be safety there, as the lamb will protect them.  When Satan is locked up for a thousand years, this kingdom will start, and be established in Jerusalem.  This is not religion, this is from the holy scriptures.  The old testament is full of prophesies concerning this time.  Revelation also speaks of the holy camp (the kingdom) and it is on earth, and when Satan is let loose after the 1000 years, he will attack this kingdom, and gather men to follow him (Mog and Magog) but will not prevail, and this is his final end.

    Joel 2:25   And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm, and my great army which I sent among you.

    Joel 2:26   And you shall eat in plenty and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

    Joel 2:27   And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

    Zephaniah 3:9   For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.

    Zephaniah 3:11  In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

    Zephaniah 3:13   The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.


    J42

    ho ,ok ,right.

    the remnant comes out of Israel ,the dead line of the Moses Law end in 70 ad,but many of the Jews that survived were scatered over all the roman empire,but remnant was still called ,

    all the called were started with Christ disciples until the end of this age.we all know that those are righteous ones

    the USA and today Israel as nothing to do in God purpose as a special people that his ,the events of today is only the out come of yesterday ,and God will bring all things to an end.


    Hi Pierre

    God has reserved Israelites from every generation. (except for the generation that came out of Egypt as God said they will not  enter his rest, but the other Israelites, they are called the remnant, and are hand chosen by God.  These ones will live in the kingdom.  There will be Israeli survivors also at the Lords coming, but the twist is, the dead ones will be resurrected into flesh, not spirit.  (save those few who followed the lamb, apostles, disciples etc) but the majority will be brought back to live in the kingdom.  That's why they are living a ripe old age, and children are playing safely.  They are still breeding in the kingdom.  The gentiles who were raised on the first resurrection will be ruling over them with Christ, they will be spirit.

    Israel play a major role in the events to come.  God is not happy with them for they have gone astray.  He will punish babylon, and he will start with Israel.  He does this with the false prophet.  They will make a secret deal with him, an agreement with death, and the false prophet will pretend to attack Israel.  This war is staged, and is false, because the Israelites need someone to destroy the dome of the rock.  The Palestinians will rejoice at Israel's so called travail, but when they see the Israelites rebuilding the temple, the kings of the east will stand up and smell something fishy, then God will dry up the euphrates river, so the kings of the east will cross over, with their allies, and this will be that big blood bath God has mustered.  That mighty war in Israel, Jacobs trouble, for God has gathered them all there together in preparation for Christ's return, and Christ will destroy the armies there.

    Isaiah 14:29   Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

    Romans 11:4   But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. (see also 1kings 19:18)


    J42

    Quote
    Israel play a major role in the events to come.  God is not happy with them for they have gone astray.

    wrong,at the year 70 AD the contract of the law was ended and God divorced Israel ,she became a repudiated women for all her adultery she did ,

    she (Israel is done and as become like the gentiles )

    God will only deal through Christ ,and his disciples written words ,(scriptures)what men hears he either like and believe or reject and suffer
    the consequences ;; Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

    Rev 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near.
    Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”

    Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
    Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

    the light are the scriptures and the righteous deeds their from ,NO NATION ,NO POWER IN THIS WORLD CAN STOP THIS LIGHT ,SO WEN YOU HAVE IT DO NOT LOSE IT .

    June 10, 2012 at 4:13 am#301844
    Devolution
    Participant

    terraricca,June wrote:

    [/quote]
    Hi Pierre,

    Quote
    wrong,at the year 70 AD the contract of the law was ended and God divorced Israel ,she became a repudiated women for all her adultery she did
    she (Israel is done and as become like the gentiles )

    Yes God divorced Israel then, we all agree im sure, but, Pierre, don't make the same mistake all the churches have made and throw Israel out with the bath water. God has reserved a remnant of DNA Israelites for a purpose, and even today, when the great tribulation comes (the war, not the other tribulation against Christians), God will reserve a tenth of Israel also… and this purpose is for His promises sake. Not because these “good figs” are special etc, but because God made promises to the fathers that He must keep.
    These reserved good figs won't be resurrected in spirit at Christs coming, these instead will be raised in the flesh and provoked to jealousy by being taught by those who took their place in the order of things, and not only these, but previous generations that were reserved also…and the resurrected Christians who are spirit will teach them…hence the other meaning of : the first will be last, and the last will be first.

    Quote
    God will only deal through Christ ,and his disciples written words ,(scriptures)what men hears he either like and believe or reject and suffer the consequences ;; Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

    You are missing the point Pierre (not being rude). These reserved are going to learn of Christ by the resurrected saints.
    So the above can not affect them.
    You need consider Romans 11.
    Especially this:
    28 > As concerning the gospel, they (Israel) are enemies for your sakes, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers sake.

    We all need to take note of this mystery…

    Romans 11:25
       For i would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in

    until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in…remember what prophecy that refers to?

    Anyway, yes, Israel today is serving the king of Babylon the great (Satan) just like all the other nations, correct, and is divorced from their God atm, correct, but God has not forgotten Israel and His promises to the father's…and…

    Zechariah 2:12
       And the Lord shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem AGAIN.

    He shall choose Jerusalem again!
    Again meaning that they were once His, but then no more, but then once again will be!
    Don't take this wrong, God isn't choosing all of Israelites, but all of His reserved Israelites. These are the ones who make up all of Israel.

    And when our Lord comes, how will these reserved feel about their own blindness in their previous rejection of Jesus?

    Zechariah 12:10
       And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications, and they (Israelites) shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Zechariah 12:11
       In that day shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem…etc

    Notice that the ones who pierced him are now mourning?
    They did not mourn when he was on the cross, they mocked and rejoiced.
    And these are not those who realized at pentecost that Jesus was indeed the Messiah either.

    Because when Jesus returns, they shall realize that they did indeed kill their Messiah after all…and will be in bitter shame and regret over this revelation at how wrong they all were.

    How am i sure? Notice that that chapter Zech 12 continues into Zech 13 and is still speaking of that day? The theme of that day continuing into chapt. 13?

    Zechariah 13:1
       In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

    Zechariah 13:2
       And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that i will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered, and also i will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

    Sound familiar?

    Notice the idols and the prophets and the unclean spirit no more in Jerusalem?
    Is that true today?

    Take note of, “and they shall no more be remembered”

    Are there not “Christian” churches with idols in them in Israel today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is there not a Muslim dome there today worshipping a different God and even on Mt Moriah at that?  
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not mystical Jewish sects there today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not Jewish “prophets” and the Sanhedrin council?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is not the old law still prevalent?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Does this sound familiar to that Zechariah 13:2 prophecy:

    Matthew 13:41
      The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity

    Zechariah 13:2
       And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that i will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered, and also i will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

    That is Christ's 2nd coming. He is going to clean up Jerusalem before He sits on His throne in her and dwells in the midst of her.
    And as J42 stated previously, if we are to become kings and priests, who will we be kings over? Who will the priests be teaching? Who will Jesus rule with a rod of iron? He does not need a rod for his own…but for those outside.

    There are many many prophecies speaking of the Israelites finally being taught the truth and accepting Jesus when a certain day triggers the heralding of that time to soon come…that day is the day that Israels blindness will at last end…after the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.

    Cheers.

    June 10, 2012 at 5:27 am#301850
    Devolution
    Participant

    Oh, Pierre,

    here is another thing to consider:

    Zechariah 12:10
    And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications, and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Revelation 1:7
    Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    That Revelation verse is in another context, but it adds insight and relevance to Zechariah when every avenue of discernment/relation to the final Jewish realization that Jesus was the Christ all along is thoroughly reflected on…imagine the emotions that will assuredly wash over them, the accepted “good figs” that is, when they realize that Jesus indeed was their Messiah….shock, regret, shame etc, leading to joy, gratefulness humility etc (for the accepted)…

    Yet the bad figs will suffer fear, regret etc only, and will be cast out of the Kingdom when the clean up begins…

    Luke 13:28
    There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

    Cheers.

    June 10, 2012 at 8:21 am#301856
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi Devo

    Quote
    but, Pierre, don't make the same mistake all the churches have made and throw Israel out with the bath water. God has reserved a remnant of DNA Israelites for a purpose, and even today, when the great tribulation comes (the war, not the other tribulation against Christians), God will reserve a tenth of Israel


    MT 24:22 “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
    MT 24:24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
    MK 13:20 “Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
    MK 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

    Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
    Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    now let see Roman 11

    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”
    Ro 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

    in verse 27 it talks about the time when God will take away their sins THIS IS DEFINITELY AT CHRIST TIME,

    Isa 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
    to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
    declares the LORD.
    Isa 59:21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the LORD. “My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever,” says the LORD

    Isa 27:9 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for,
    and this will be the full fruitage of the removal of his sin:
    When he makes all the altar stones
    to be like chalk stones crushed to pieces,
    no Asherah poles or incense altars
    will be left standing.

    Jer 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
    after that time,” declares the LORD.
    “I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    Jer 31:34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
    or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the LORD.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    THOSE VERSES ARE DECLARING THE TIME OF CHRIST AND HIS COVENANT

    look what Jer;31 34 says this is true IN CHRIST act of reconciliation and payment of the ransom for our sins ,it is also true that all that came to the truth ,the light of Christ would know their LORD and his father GOD almighty,(it does not talk about the rest of the world of men ,only of the elect

    LET S LOOK AT ZEC;13–

    Zec 13:1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
    Zec 13:2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the LORD Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land.
    Zec 13:3 And if anyone still prophesies, his father and mother, to whom he was born, will say to him, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD'S name.’ When he prophesies, his own parents will stab him.
    Zec 13:4 “On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision. He will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive.
    Zec 13:5 He will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.’
    Zec 13:6 If someone asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your body ?’ he will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’

    all those scriptures have been accomplished by the time Christ was resurrected ,LETS LOOK AT VERSE 2,

    Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
    Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
    Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
    Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    NOW LETS LOOK AT VERSE 6;Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

    Quote
    Are there not “Christian” churches with idols in them in Israel today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is there not a Muslim dome there today worshipping a different God and even on Mt Moriah at that?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not mystical Jewish sects there today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not Jewish “prophets” and the Sanhedrin council?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is not the old law still prevalent?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    all of those quotes you say are unfulfilled are in reality have been fulfilled;we do not talking about the world of men but about the elect the remnant of Israel (144k)

    June 10, 2012 at 8:44 am#301857
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Devolution @ June 10 2012,23:27)
    Oh, Pierre,

    here is another thing to consider:

    Zechariah 12:10
      And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications, and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Revelation 1:7
       Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    That Revelation verse is in another context, but it adds insight and relevance to Zechariah when every avenue of discernment/relation to the final Jewish realization that Jesus was the Christ all along is thoroughly reflected on…imagine the emotions that will assuredly wash over them, the accepted “good figs” that is, when they realize that Jesus indeed was their Messiah….shock, regret, shame etc, leading to joy, gratefulness humility etc (for the accepted)…

    Yet the bad figs will suffer fear, regret etc only, and will be cast out of the Kingdom when the clean up begins…

    Luke 13:28
       There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

    Cheers.


    Hi Devo

    Quote
    here is another thing to consider:

    Zechariah 12:10

    Zec 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
    Zec 12:11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
    Zec 12:12 The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives,
    Zec 12:13 the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives,
    Zec 12:14 and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

    his this not what happen when Christ was arrested and walked to his dead on the cross ???Strike the shepherd,
    and the sheep will be scattered,or Lk 23:27 A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him.
    Lk 23:28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children.
    Lk 23:29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’
    Lk 23:30 Then
    “ ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
    and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’
    Lk 23:31 For if men do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?”

    Zec 13:1 “On that day a fountain(Christ) will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.

    Jn 4:13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,
    Jn 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

    NOW LET SEE LUKE 13;

    Lk 13:24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
    Lk 13:25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
    “But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
    Lk 13:26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
    Lk 13:27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
    Lk 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
    Lk 13:29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.
    Lk 13:30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

    Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
    Rev 14:2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
    Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
    Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    those remnant or elect could only been seen in the kingdom and would only been seen by men when the heavenly Jerusalem comes down to earth right ?
    REV 3:12 ‘ He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
    REV 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
    REV 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

    God scriptures are not made for the world but for the believers
    so that they would know their way in his light and be saved .

    June 10, 2012 at 10:09 am#301858
    Devolution
    Participant

    Quote ( @ –)


    Hi Pierre,

    Firstly, thank you for your response.

    Pierre, we can not replace Israel and put the Christians in their place all together therefore making prophecies that concern Israel now concern Christians.

    Consider this as to your reply…

    Quote
    MT 24:22 “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
    MT 24:24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
    MK 13:20 “Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
    MK 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

    Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
    Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
    in verse 27 it talks about the time when God will take away their sins THIS IS DEFINITELY AT CHRIST TIME,

    now let see Roman 11

    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”
    Ro 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

    First:

    Quote
    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”

    The 144k:

    Quote
    These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    Notice that these 144k are clean already? That these kept themselves pure.
    These had already been following Christ whilst on the earth and feeding on the whole truth of truths undefiled.
    Can one keep oneself pure under the old law?
    Scripture says there is no way possible to do that without following Christ first.

    Second:
    Notice they are without fault before the throne of God rev 14:15?
    For those who are changed into Spirit by making the resurrection, one thing is true for every accepted saint, whether the 144k or any other resurrected saint….and that is, they are made new creatures at resurrection and are thenceforth and forever without fault, because every single one will have been perfected..so this meaning, though at that point they were actually before Gods throne, it is referring to their walk in Christ whilst alive, else why even mention such a thing as though no other resurrected saint would be without fault at that stage being physically able to stand before Gods throne?
    And if other resurrected saints did have fault before His throne, then where is the power of the resurrection over evil?
    These are the elite after all.
    So when God says that they are without fault before His throne, He means that they were worshipping Him in purity and truth when they were on the earth.

    Third:

    Quote
    Ro 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.

    Notice this:

    John 6:26
    Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

    So these were following Christ for self gain.

    John 6:27
    Labor not for the meat which perishes, but for the meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you, for him hath God sealed.

    So those who labor for this meat, which the Son of man shall give, will be sealed.
    What meat?
    When Jesus was questioned on this He started speaking of the bread from heaven…concerning the meat which is food that He previously mentioned.
    And as we read further we find Him revealing that He Himself is indeed that bread, and that we should eat that bread, which is His flesh..but He did not mean to physically eat Him, but eat that which comes out of Him….
    And what comes out of Him of which He likens to flesh?

    John 6:63
    It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profits nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    We are to eat His words.
    But many eat His words with other mixtures that defile that word…religions, private interpretations etc…
    These 144k did not do this thing. They therefore were pure.
    So we learn that only the 144k will be feeding on undefiled truth with no self interpretations or doctrines mixed in out of all the Christians from every generation that has been.
    The only Christians who know the whole truth.

    Fourth:

    Ro 11:28 As far as the

    June 10, 2012 at 10:28 am#301859
    Devolution
    Participant

    Quote ( @ –)


    Hi Pierre,

    Firstly, thank you for your response.

    Pierre, we can not replace Israel and put the Christians in their place all together therefore making prophecies that concern Israel now concern Christians.

    Consider this as to your reply…

    [qu

    June 10, 2012 at 10:40 am#301860
    Devolution
    Participant

    Quote ( @ –)


    Hi Pierre,

    Firstly, thank you for your response.

    Pierre, we can not replace Israel and put the Christians in their place all together therefore making prophecies that concern Israel now concern Christians.

    Consider this the first part to your reply…

    First:

    Quote
    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”

    The 144k:

    Quote
    These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    Notice that these 144k are clean already? That these kept themselves pure.
    These had already been following Christ whilst on the earth and feeding on the whole truth of truths undefiled.
    Can one keep oneself pure under the old law?
    Scripture says there is no way possible to do that without following Christ first.
    The remnants are of days of old and new. The good figs Jeremiah speaks of. They did not know Christ…but eventually will.

    Second:
    Notice they are without fault before the throne of God rev 14:15?
    For those who are changed into Spirit by making the resurrection, one thing is true for every accepted saint, whether the 144k or any other resurrected saint….and that is, they are made new creatures at resurrection and are thenceforth and forever without fault, because every single one will have be

    June 10, 2012 at 3:01 pm#301877
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Devolution,

    God warns against private interpretations of Prophecy. (2Peter 1:20)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    June 10, 2012 at 4:27 pm#301884
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Devolution @ June 11 2012,04:40)
    <!–QuoteBegin–+—->

    Quote ( @ –)
    <!–QuoteEBegin–>


    Hi Pierre,

    Firstly, thank you for your response.

    Pierre, we can not replace Israel and put the Christians in their place all together therefore making prophecies that concern Israel now concern Christians.

    Consider this the first part to your reply…

    First:

    Quote
    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”

    The 144k:

    Quote
    These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    Notice that these 144k are clean already? That these kept themselves pure.
    These had already been following Christ whilst on the earth and feeding on the whole truth of truths undefiled.
    Can one keep oneself pure under the old law?
    Scripture says there is no way possible to do that without following Christ first.
    The remnants are of days of old and new. The good figs Jeremiah speaks of. They did not know Christ…but eventually will.

    Second:
    Notice they are without fault before the throne of God rev 14:15?
    For those who are changed into Spirit by making the resurrection, one thing is true for every accepted saint, whether the 144k or any other resurrected saint….and that is, they are made new creatures at resurrection and are thenceforth and forever without fault, because every single one will have be[/quote]
    hi Devo

    Quote
    Quote  
    These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    how could anyone be some thing before he dies ????

    birth is the beginning either in the flesh or spiritually ,so Revelation says that they (144k) those did not defile themselves;;they kept themselves pure;;; they follow the lamb;;;No lie was found in their mouth ,;;;they are blameless;;;

    for those reason and until their dead acted this way ,this is why they are called the saints and have become the first fruits.

    they have loved Christ and his father above their own lives.

    Quote
    Pierre, we can not replace Israel and put the Christians in their place all together therefore making prophecies that concern Israel now concern Christians.

    Devo;their is no longer a flesh Israel only people of the nations ,and their is no replacement for Israel but God has chosen for him a people for his name out of all nations with the prime out of Israel first according to his promise.

    this is what scriptures are saying .

    Quote
    For those who are changed into Spirit by making the resurrection, one thing is true for every accepted saint, whether the 144k or any other resurrected saint….and that is, they are made new creatures at resurrection and are thenceforth and forever without fault, because every single one will have be

    if we accept the way of Christ we are a new creation ,because we would have nothing in common with the old one ,but this is only a rebirth ,and a start ,now we have to progress and walk until the end of our life and stay faithful to him that saves us,if not we can lose our status of righteousness,but I agree with you that after dead we are declared righteous and become corrup would be very unlikly .

    do not mix Israelites and so called Christians ,with true Christians devoted to Christ and his father ,by not speaking lies,by going after the true kingdom of God even if they donot are part of the 144k,and so be resurrected on earth ,[

    June 10, 2012 at 4:28 pm#301885
    Devolution
    Participant

    Quote (Devolution @ June 10 2012,21:40)
    <!–QuoteBegin–+—->

    Quote ( @ –)
    <!–QuoteEBegin–>[/quote]
    Hi Pierre,

    Firstly, thank you for your response.

    Pierre, we can not replace Israel and put the Christians in their place all together therefore making prophecies that concern Israel now concern Christians.

    Consider this the first part to your reply…

    First:

    Quote
    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”

    The 144k:

    Quote
    These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    Notice that these 144k are clean already? That these kept themselves pure.
    These had already been following Christ whilst on the earth and feeding on the whole truth of truths undefiled.
    Can one keep oneself pure under the old law?
    Scripture says there is no way possible to do that without following Christ first.
    The remnants are of days of old and new. The good figs Jeremiah speaks of. They did not know Christ…but eventually will.

    Second:
    Notice they are without fault before the throne of God rev 14:15?
    For those who are changed into Spirit by making the resurrection, one thing is true for every accepted saint, whether the 144k or any other resurrected saint….and that is, they are made new creatures at resurrection and are thenceforth and forever without fault, because every single one will have be


    Sorry Pierrre, those replies were not meant to have been posted, i was formulating an answer and they were not my answer…just musings…i have a different approach to what was posted darn it!!!

    My internet went crazy and instead of previewing the post, it posted them several times in differing stages as you saw…

    I think my credit almost expired and freaked out on the slow down…

    i am using a friends comp to answer you atm…

    Will have to wait to get credit b4 i can answer you…

    Sorry bout the confusion.

    June 10, 2012 at 4:32 pm#301886
    terraricca
    Participant

    devo

    OK.:)

    June 11, 2012 at 11:12 am#302014
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ June 10 2012,04:34)
    Hi Jammin,

    Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
    “The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
    What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.

    But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
    The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
    And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
    getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.

    Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
    First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
    of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
    But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
    to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!

    When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
    “God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
    If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
    then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    you are one of those false teachers.
    the son is truly God. the bible says that.
    make your own bible

    June 11, 2012 at 4:01 pm#302018
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ June 12 2012,05:12)

    Quote (Ed J @ June 10 2012,04:34)
    Hi Jammin,

    Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
    “The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
    What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.

    But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
    The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
    And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
    getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.

    Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
    First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
    of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
    But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
    to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!

    When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
    “God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
    If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
    then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    you are one of those false teachers.
    the son is truly God. the bible says that.
    make your own bible


    J

    Quote
    the son is truly God

    the son can not be the God of witch he his the son of ,

    if so then all scriptures writers are liars including God and this would make YOU THE REAL LIAR, is it,

    God can not lie, IF GOD SAYS HE HAS A SON THEN HE AS A SON AND HE IS NOT THAT SON RIGHT ? YES

    June 12, 2012 at 4:16 am#302113
    Devolution
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ June 10 2012,19:21)
    hi Devo

    Quote
    but, Pierre, don't make the same mistake all the churches have made and throw Israel out with the bath water. God has reserved a remnant of DNA Israelites for a purpose, and even today, when the great tribulation comes (the war, not the other tribulation against Christians), God will reserve a tenth of Israel


    MT 24:22 “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
    MT 24:24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
    MK 13:20 “Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
    MK 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

    Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
    Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    now let see Roman 11

    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”
    Ro 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

    in verse 27 it talks about the time when God will take away their sins THIS IS DEFINITELY AT CHRIST TIME,

    Isa 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
    to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
    declares the LORD.
    Isa 59:21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the LORD. “My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever,” says the LORD

    Isa 27:9 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for,
    and this will be the full fruitage of the removal of his sin:
    When he makes all the altar stones
    to be like chalk stones crushed to pieces,
    no Asherah poles or incense altars
    will be left standing.

    Jer 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
    after that time,” declares the LORD.
    “I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    Jer 31:34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
    or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the LORD.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    THOSE VERSES ARE DECLARING THE TIME OF CHRIST AND HIS COVENANT

    look what Jer;31 34 says this is true IN CHRIST  act of reconciliation and payment of the ransom for our sins ,it is also true that all that came to the truth ,the light of Christ would know their LORD and his father GOD almighty,(it does not talk about the rest of the world of men ,only of the elect  

    LET S LOOK AT ZEC;13–

    Zec 13:1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
    Zec 13:2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the LORD Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land.
    Zec 13:3 And if anyone still prophesies, his father and mother, to whom he was born, will say to him, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD'S name.’ When he prophesies, his own parents will stab him.
    Zec 13:4 “On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision. He will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive.
    Zec 13:5 He will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.’
    Zec 13:6 If someone asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your body ?’ he will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’

    all those scriptures have been accomplished by the time Christ was resurrected ,LETS LOOK AT VERSE 2,

    Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
    Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
    Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
    Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    NOW LETS LOOK AT VERSE 6;Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

    Quote
    Are there not “Christian” churches with idols in them in Israel today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is there not a Muslim dome there today worshipping a different God and even on Mt Moriah at that?  
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not mystical Jewish sects there today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not Jewish “prophets” and the Sanhedrin council?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is not the old law still prevalent?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    all of those quotes you say are unfulfilled are in reality have been fulfilled;we do not talking about the world of men but about the elect the remnant of Israel (144k)


    Hi Pierre,

    I have access to a computer atm Praise the Lord. lol…

    Firstly, i would like to say that i don't think that everything you have posted is wrong, just that some things you have linked together, i do not see as belonging together.

    Having said that, i would like to start with the link to Romans 11.
    If we read Hosea, we will see the link to what is being spoken about. And it has everything to do with the Jews being cast away, and then eventually accepted again…not the Christians, but the DNA Jewish people themselves.

    For simplicity sake, i would like to concentrate on something easily understood and needing minimal debate…

    Hosea is a metaphoric explanation of Israels accumalative fortunes/phases to come to pass.

    Here in Hosea 1, God is speaking of Israel as im sure you'd agree…

    Hosea 1:9
      Then said God, Call his name Loammi, for ye are not My people, and I will not be your God.

    We agree, im sure, that this is Israel being divorced. For we know that Christ Himself stated that for that generation, that the kingdom will be taken from Israel and given to another people, and that God will call His people by another name.

    This is the only time in history where God states o
    utright that National Israel is now no longer His people.

    Now consider this next phase in Gods dealings with the nation of Israel…(remembering that the first part of this next verse holds a dual meaning as to the children of Israel as the sand of the sea…Gods promise to Abraham should come to mind). Remember, this next phase is after their (Israel) being divorced…

    Hosea 1:10
      Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered, and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto THEM, Ye are not My people, THERE it shall be said unto THEM, Ye are the sons of the living God.

    Q: Where was Israel when God divorced them?
    A: In Israel under Roman occupation.

    Q: What happened after God divorced Israel?
    A: 70ad…Israel destroyed.

    Now read Hosea 2.
    Note how God is even then, after her divorce, warning her to stop her wicked ways. Even after her divorce God mercifully gives her one more small chance, even though He knows what the outcome will be (also remembering that she is divorced from God now)…hence Him telling us what He is going to do to her leading up to this important revelation, for He knws Israel will not listen…this outcome that took place in 70ad…

    But first:
    Q: Was Israel destroyed straight after Christ was crucified?
    A: NO, about 37 years passed until Israels punishment kicked in.

    Here was that small window of opportunity for Israel to wake up…she did not.

    That telling sign:

    Hosea 2:10
      And now I will discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of My hand.

    Hosea 2:11
      I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

    Q : When, after Israels divorce, which also means after Christs rejection/crucifixion, did Israel lose her feast days & her new moons & her sabbaths & her solemn feasts?
    A : 70ad.

    Q : Where did all this take place?
    A : Israel.

    Q : So in what place was it said to Israel, “Ye are not My people, and I will not be your God?
    A : In Israel.

    Q : Who called the Romans to do this to Israel?
    A : God caused the events that lead to this destruction to come about.

    So we see that the divorced and rejected Israel, will one day in the future, be reconciled to God….
    FOR:
    And where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, that is, in Israel, it is from that place where it will in the near future be said to THEM (National Israel), Ye are the sons of the Living God.

    Q : Were believing Christian Jews divorced from God?
    A : No.

    Q : So believing Christian Jews are not THEM of whom it was said, “Ye are not My people”
    A : No

    Q : So who is the only other THEM that this can be?
    A : National unbelieving Israel.

    Q : Israel of today?
    A : NO…not yet…

    So since it can not be the Christians, whether Jewish or Gentile believers, that God divorced…it can only be national Israel correct?
    And it is these very ones that God will one day say, Ye are the sons of the living God.
    Because God did not divorce CHRISTIANS.

    Hence:

    Isaiah 14:1
      For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet CHOOSE Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

    Christians were never divorced, they were CHOSEN…Israel was divorced…
    And if one WAS Gods, and then were no longer His, but one day would be again…
    How would you word that reconciliation?
    Like this maybe:

    Zechariah 1:17
    Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet CHOOSE Jerusalem.

    Zechariah 2:12
    And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall CHOOSE Jerusalem AGAIN….

    AGAIN….
    Christians would need to be cast away and then reconciled to be chosen again would they not?
    But they weren't were they!
    So, who else can this ONLY be speaking about?
    Well, national unbelieving ISRAEL who will ONE DAY be reconciled….IN Israel!
    Who? Even the wicked Israelies God swore would never be His?
    OR…those RESERVED Jews from every generation from times past and even now that will find mercy?
    That is the question.

    June 12, 2012 at 8:01 am#302128
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Devolution @ June 12 2012,22:16)

    Quote (terraricca @ June 10 2012,19:21)
    hi Devo

    Quote
    but, Pierre, don't make the same mistake all the churches have made and throw Israel out with the bath water. God has reserved a remnant of DNA Israelites for a purpose, and even today, when the great tribulation comes (the war, not the other tribulation against Christians), God will reserve a tenth of Israel


    MT 24:22 “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
    MT 24:24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
    MK 13:20 “Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
    MK 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

    Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
    Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
    Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

    now let see Roman 11

    Ro 11:27 And this is my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”
    Ro 11:28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

    in verse 27 it talks about the time when God will take away their sins THIS IS DEFINITELY AT CHRIST TIME,

    Isa 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
    to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
    declares the LORD.
    Isa 59:21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the LORD. “My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever,” says the LORD

    Isa 27:9 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for,
    and this will be the full fruitage of the removal of his sin:
    When he makes all the altar stones
    to be like chalk stones crushed to pieces,
    no Asherah poles or incense altars
    will be left standing.

    Jer 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
    after that time,” declares the LORD.
    “I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    Jer 31:34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
    or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the LORD.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    THOSE VERSES ARE DECLARING THE TIME OF CHRIST AND HIS COVENANT

    look what Jer;31 34 says this is true IN CHRIST  act of reconciliation and payment of the ransom for our sins ,it is also true that all that came to the truth ,the light of Christ would know their LORD and his father GOD almighty,(it does not talk about the rest of the world of men ,only of the elect  

    LET S LOOK AT ZEC;13–

    Zec 13:1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
    Zec 13:2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the LORD Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land.
    Zec 13:3 And if anyone still prophesies, his father and mother, to whom he was born, will say to him, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD'S name.’ When he prophesies, his own parents will stab him.
    Zec 13:4 “On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision. He will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive.
    Zec 13:5 He will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.’
    Zec 13:6 If someone asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your body ?’ he will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’

    all those scriptures have been accomplished by the time Christ was resurrected ,LETS LOOK AT VERSE 2,

    Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
    Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
    Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
    Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    NOW LETS LOOK AT VERSE 6;Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

    Quote
    Are there not “Christian” churches with idols in them in Israel today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is there not a Muslim dome there today worshipping a different God and even on Mt Moriah at that?  
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not mystical Jewish sects there today?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Are there not Jewish “prophets” and the Sanhedrin council?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    Is not the old law still prevalent?
    “and they shall no more be remembered” : Unfulfilled.

    all of those quotes you say are unfulfilled are in reality have been fulfilled;we do not talking about the world of men but about the elect the remnant of Israel (144k)


    Hi Pierre,

    I have access to a computer atm Praise the Lord. lol…

    Firstly, i would like to say that i don't think that everything you have posted is wrong, just that some things you have linked together, i do not see as belonging together.

    Having said that, i would like to start with the link to Romans 11.
    If we read Hosea, we will see the link to what is being spoken about. And it has everything to do with the Jews being cast away, and then eventually accepted again…not the Christians, but the DNA Jewish people themselves.

    For simplicity sake, i would like to concentrate on something easily understood and needing minimal debate…

    Hosea is a metaphoric explanation of Israels accumalative fortunes/phases to come to pass.

    Here in Hosea 1, God is speaking of Israel as im sure you'd agree…

    Hosea 1:9
      Then said God, Call his name Loammi, for ye are not My people, and I will not be your God.

    We agree, im sure, that this is Israel being divorced. For we know that Chr
    ist Himself stated that for that generation, that the kingdom will be taken from Israel and given to another people, and that God will call His people by another name.

    This is the only time in history where God states outright that National Israel is now no longer His people.

    Now consider this next phase in Gods dealings with the nation of Israel…(remembering that the first part of this next verse holds a dual meaning as to the children of Israel as the sand of the sea…Gods promise to Abraham should come to mind). Remember, this next phase is after their (Israel) being divorced…

    Hosea 1:10
      Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered, and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto THEM, Ye are not My people, THERE it shall be said unto THEM, Ye are the sons of the living God.

    Q: Where was Israel when God divorced them?
    A: In Israel under Roman occupation.

    Q: What happened after God divorced Israel?
    A: 70ad…Israel destroyed.

    Now read Hosea 2.
    Note how God is even then, after her divorce, warning her to stop her wicked ways. Even after her divorce God mercifully gives her one more small chance, even though He knows what the outcome will be (also remembering that she is divorced from God now)…hence Him telling us what He is going to do to her leading up to this important revelation, for He knws Israel will not listen…this outcome that took place in 70ad…

    But first:
    Q: Was Israel destroyed straight after Christ was crucified?
    A: NO, about 37 years passed until Israels punishment kicked in.

    Here was that small window of opportunity for Israel to wake up…she did not.

    That telling sign:

    Hosea 2:10
      And now I will discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of My hand.

    Hosea 2:11
      I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

    Q : When, after Israels divorce, which also means after Christs rejection/crucifixion, did Israel lose her feast days & her new moons & her sabbaths & her solemn feasts?
    A : 70ad.

    Q : Where did all this take place?
    A : Israel.

    Q : So in what place was it said to Israel, “Ye are not My people, and I will not be your God?
    A : In Israel.

    Q : Who called the Romans to do this to Israel?
    A : God caused the events that lead to this destruction to come about.

    So we see that the divorced and rejected Israel, will one day in the future, be reconciled to God….
    FOR:
    And where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, that is, in Israel, it is from that place where it will in the near future be said to THEM (National Israel), Ye are the sons of the Living God.

    Q : Were believing Christian Jews divorced from God?
    A : No.

    Q : So believing Christian Jews are not THEM of whom it was said, “Ye are not My people”
    A : No

    Q : So who is the only other THEM that this can be?
    A : National unbelieving Israel.

    Q : Israel of today?
    A : NO…not yet…

    So since it can not be the Christians, whether Jewish or Gentile believers, that God divorced…it can only be national Israel correct?
    And it is these very ones that God will one day say, Ye are the sons of the living God.
    Because God did not divorce CHRISTIANS.

    Hence:

    Isaiah 14:1
      For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet CHOOSE Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

    Christians were never divorced, they were CHOSEN…Israel was divorced…
    And if one WAS Gods, and then were no longer His, but one day would be again…
    How would you word that reconciliation?
    Like this maybe:

    Zechariah 1:17
    Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet CHOOSE Jerusalem.

    Zechariah 2:12
    And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall CHOOSE Jerusalem AGAIN….

    AGAIN….
    Christians would need to be cast away and then reconciled to be chosen again would they not?
    But they weren't were they!
    So, who else can this ONLY be speaking about?
    Well, national unbelieving ISRAEL who will ONE DAY be reconciled….IN Israel!
    Who? Even the wicked Israelies God swore would never be His?
    OR…those RESERVED Jews from every generation from times past and even now that will find mercy?
    That is the question.


    Devo

    I have read your quote ,and will respond to it soon ,but one thing has to be clear ,

    we are sins Christ living with and in the spirit of Gods will ,the time of the demonstration as gone ,the reality is in God and in his son ,the truth remains all his according to his plan .

    be back soon

    June 12, 2012 at 1:18 pm#302147
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2012,03:01)

    Quote (jammin @ June 12 2012,05:12)

    Quote (Ed J @ June 10 2012,04:34)
    Hi Jammin,

    Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
    “The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
    What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.

    But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
    The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
    And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
    getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.

    Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
    First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
    of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
    But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
    to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!

    When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
    “God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
    If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
    then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    you are one of those false teachers.
    the son is truly God. the bible says that.
    make your own bible


    J

    Quote
    the son is truly God

    the son can not be the God of witch he his the son of ,

    if so then all scriptures writers are liars including God and this would make YOU THE REAL LIAR, is it,

    God can not lie, IF GOD SAYS HE HAS A SON THEN HE AS A SON AND HE IS NOT THAT SON RIGHT ? YES


    yes the father has a son and his son is God by nature.
    phil 2.6

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