What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 601 through 620 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #796284
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Where does it say Jesus WAS a spirit?

    He was recognised as the Christ since birth by those with the Spirit of prophecy.

    #796285
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    “..the last Adam BECAME  a life giving spirit”

    #796287
    NickHassan
    Participant

    HI BD,

    So when did the last Adam BECOME a life giving spirit?

    Before he was conceived? Before he was a man?

    #796288
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    “However the spiritual was NOT FIRST but the natural; then the spiritual”

    1Cor 15 45-46

     

     

    #796291
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    You say

    “John 10:36
    say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    He was sanctified before being sent”

     

    Jn 17.17f

    “Sanctify them in the truth; your Word is truth

    As you sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world”

     

    Same for the apostles.

    They did not preexist did they?

    #796314
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Ps 2.2

    The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His ANOINTED,

    Acts 4.26

    The Kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against His CHRIST

    For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your Holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed ..

    Acts 9.22

    But Saul kept increasing in strength and confounding the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that this Jesus is the Christ.

    #796323
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    HI Nick

    Hi BD,

    Where does it say Jesus WAS a spirit?

    He was recognised as the Christ since birth by those with the Spirit of prophecy.

    Jesus didn’t have a Natural conception and although there are bible verses saying he was the seed of David according to the flesh Jesus corrects their mistake by saying:

    Mark 12:35
    And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?

    You keep accusing me of what the scriptures say but Jesus is disputing the scribes himself and Paul who calls Jesus the seed of David never in all his letters mention the virgin birth. Jesus was not conceived by flesh he was conceived by the Power of Almighty God and was a Spirit Proceeding Form God and a Word from Him

    #796340
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Is this your own teaching?

    The word used for the conception of Jesus is the same as is used for the conception of John the Baptist.

    Was John not naturally conceived either?

    #796351
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    So acts 4 aligned with Ps 2 identifies the ANOINTED as THE CHRIST.

    So further examination of Ps 2 shows us that Jesus Christ is also MY KING and THE SON.

    It relates to the time of the millenial kingdom when God rules earth through the Son of God from Jerusalem.

    Of course the TODAY is historical referring to when God shared his Spirit with Jesus  making him a spiritual son at the Jordan.

    An amazing Psalm.

    #796352
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Jesus was not arguing against being the Son of David.

    He was a son of MAN and a Son of God.

    Mary was of flesh and Joseph was his foster father.

    Mt1

    Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah

    #796376
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Prov 30

    ‘What is His name or His Son’s name?’

    Prophecy about the Son.

    #796383
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Jn4.25f

    The woman said to him

    ‘I know the messiah is coming[he who is called Christ];when that one comes he will declare all things to us’

    Jesus said to her

    ‘I who speak to you am he”

    ….So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men

    “Come see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not the Christ is it?”

    #796388
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Jesus was not arguing against being the Son of David.

    He was a son of MAN and a Son of God.

    Mary was of flesh and Joseph was his foster father.

    Mt1

    Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah

    Of course he was arguing against it otherwise you don’t say “How is it” in otherwords he is asking how can it be possible and that is an argument he was framing otherwise no need to say “How is it”

    Matthew 22:41-43Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

    If he was the son of David he simply would have agreed but he cannot be the son of David because he has pre-eminence just as John said:

    John 1:15
    John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

    So Jesus is saying the same argument and he also used it regarding Abraham

    #796390
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Your wild self interpretations of the sacred words carry no weight.

    You are the one who wants to correct the teachings so why quote them?

    #796395
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Yes the Word was before Abraham, and Jesus.

    #796400
    kerwin
    Participant

    Bodhitharta,

    Of course he was arguing against it otherwise you don’t say “How is it” in otherwords he is asking how can it be possible and that is an argument he was framing otherwise no need to say “How is it”

    So if I ask someone “How can I do that task” then you conclude I mean I can’t perform the task. That is certainly not my understanding. I believe I am asking in what way I can do the work.

    In the same way Jesus is asking “in what way is the Anointed One the Son of David?”

    In Romans 1 that question is answered as we are told he is the Son of David as he was born of the flesh of David flesh.

    He is the Son of God because his spirit was born of God’s Spirit.

    Jesus was constantly speaking of both the Son of humanity and the Son of God and the way he is each one is clear to those with Spiritual eyes.

    #796407
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    His spirit was born of God’s Spirit?

    No he was filled with the Holy Spirit at the Jordan.

     

    He was reborn from above and we follow him

    #796409
    Miia
    Participant

    It relates to the time of the millenial kingdom when God rules earth through the Son of God from Jerusalem.

    And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (Matthew 28.18)

    One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. (Galatians 4.24)

    You have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12.18)

    “However the spiritual was NOT FIRST but the natural; then the spiritual”

    1Cor 15 45-46

    #796412
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi Kerwin

    So if I ask someone “How can I do that task” then you conclude I mean I can’t perform the task. That is certainly not my understanding. I believe I am asking in what way I can do the work.

    In the same way Jesus is asking “in what way is the Anointed One the Son of David?”

    In Romans 1 that question is answered as we are told he is the Son of David as he was born of the flesh of David flesh.

    He is the Son of God because his spirit was born of God’s Spirit.

    Jesus was constantly speaking of both the Son of humanity and the Son of God and the way he is each one is clear to those with Spiritual eyes.

    It is not an important issue to me but the fact is, if he was asking a question to learn how, he would not given an answer to teach them his view was correct:

    Mark 12

    35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?

    36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    So he has made the argument that David referred to his as lord and not son

    37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

    now after he corrects what the scribes have written/said he makes it clear it was an argument by saying

    38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

    Clearly if the scribes were correct he would have no reason to make the last comment, Jesus used this same technique when they wanted to stone him for calling himself “son of God”

    John 10:35-36King James Version (KJV)

    35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

    36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    now here again he is correcting what is written and this is clear because of what he says

    John 10:34King James Version (KJV)

    34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

    once again it is a statement that sets them against their own written law and at the same time he is saying that he is not even making such a claim although it is written

    #796415
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    You are not qualified to interpret scripture to believers.

    You feel you can correct the wisdom of God

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