What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 421 through 440 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #792780
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Prophetic words about an infant.

    Jesus of Nazareth was anointed with the Holy Spirit..[acts10]

    #793494
    DavidL
    Participant

    @t8

    I believe that Jesus, as the Son, exists in a place of equality with the Father…He is with God – He is God…(one in complete unity)

    your response..

     

    He is with God. That makes HE and GOD. The former is the Son of God. Identifying Jesus Christ as the son of God is the true confession. He is Lord, Messiah, and Son of the living God.

    Be careful not to deny the one true God as the Father and Jesus as the Son of that one true God. If you do that, then you err.

     

    Here’s what the Bible says concerning the equality of the Son with God…

     

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.” – John 1:1,2

    “Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to His own advantage; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.” – Philippians 2:6,7

    “I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world began.” – John 17:4,5

     

    These verses testify to the Oneness Jesus has with the Father..

     

    Cults deny these verses, inventing all sorts of man-made interpretations and reasoning’s to justify their uninspired conclusions – but in so doing, they (like yourself) are actually denying the reality of Jesus Christ…thus they exclude themselves from the Life of the Spirit, and the presence of the Father..

     

    ..all that is left is an outward form of Christianity.. a dead replica that in appearance may SEEM right – but the Life is gone..

     

     

    #793497
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    You think the Son is equal to the Father he was begotten from?

    You know it is the Father who did the works through him

    Acts 2.22

    “…miracles and wonders and signs which GOD PERFORMED THROUGH HIM..”

     

    So all these graces and abilities were of God.

    God blessed him with them to enable him.

    Heb7.7

    “Without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater”

     

    But in your loyal service of man you seem to have forgotten these things.

    Serve God

     

     

    #793498
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    You serve the biggest and most powerful cult of all.

    Serve God

     

    #793512
    kerwin
    Participant

    My statement is that Jesus, the human being, is King over all things in heaven and on earth and God appointed him that position.

    Note: I left out Christ because it is equivalent to King.

    #793513
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Best to offer what scripture says rather than opinion.

    Christ means anointed, not king.

    #793515
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    It means either the heir or the king. David uses it for the later in this passage but he also was the Lord’s anointed at that time even though he was not yet king.

    2 Samuel 1:14Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    14 And David said unto him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?

    Jesus has not ascended to the kingship though all things have not yet been put under his feet.

    #793540
    DavidL
    Participant

    Nick

    You think the Son is equal to the Father he was begotten from?

    Yes – that’s what Scripture says..!

    “but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things..” Heb. 1:2

    “even as You gave Him [Jesus] authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.” John 17:2

    All things have been committed to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.” Matt 11:27

    “The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in His hands.” John 3:35

    “Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God.” John 13:3

    “And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.” Matt 28:18

    But of the Son He [the Father] says, ‘YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM. Heb 1:8

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Rev 1:8

     

    You know it is the Father who did the works through him

    Acts 2.22

    “…miracles and wonders and signs which GOD PERFORMED THROUGH HIM..”

    Yes..

    just as God created the world through Him..

    He was with God – He was God.

    “All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” John 1:3

    “..all things have been created through Him and for Him.” Col 1:16

    “For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.” Rom 11:36

     

    Heb 7.7

    “Without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater”

    Abraham was blessed by Melchizedek..?

    If you are meaning the Father is greater than the Son..

    Yes..

    God is Head of Christ, just as the Husband is head of the wife..

    Headship does not contradict Oneness.

     

    If Jesus Christ were nothing more than a man (as you teach), how could He have at His command (as Scripture says) thousands upon thousands of mighty warring angels..?

    “Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?” Matt 26:53

    #793559
    NickHassan
    Participant

    HI DAVIDL,

    So when Jesus hands the Kingdom back to the Father in 1 Cor 15 what happens to this EQUALITY you speak of?

    The Father does not die so any inheritance does not mean equality.

    #793560
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    If God sends legions of angels to help his Son how does that show the Son is equal?

    If he was why would he need help?

     

    #793561
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    So God is head of Jesus.

    So your idea of ONENESS is not sameness but unity.

    #793669
    DavidL
    Participant

    So your idea of ONENESS is not sameness but unity.

    Oneness is perfect unity..

    #793670
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Your definition?

    Or that of scripture?

    #793673
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    If Jesus is not now a king then neither is he Lord,or the Christ.For the Christ is King of the Jews and over the nations.He is exalted to God’s right hand as Psalm 2,Acts 2:30-36.If David was ever a real king then Christ is much more so!

    But  this applies only if you believe in the resurrection of Jesus.

    #793675
    DavidL
    Participant

    If God sends legions of angels to help his Son how does that show the Son is equal?

    If he was why would he need help?

    The Word became flesh – the incorruptible put on mortality…the creator of life left the glory He dwelt in (with the Father, as God), and voluntarily subjected Himself to became like us – dependent on everything that we also are dependent on.. yet He is not as other men, like you teach… Jesus clearly reveals a vast distinction between Himself and the fallen sons of Adam – “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.” John 8:23

    “If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.” John 3:13

    “He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all..” John 3:31

     

    When Jesus said, “I and the Father are One,” ..He is showing that while He had to lay aside His literal place of equality with God to actually become human – yet, even in His humanity He still dwelt in perfect oneness with the Father…He had to empty Himself of all that made Him God, living a life of complete trust, as we must – yet in essence He always knew Who He was… and where He came from..

    #793676
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    When I said

    Jesus has not ascended to the kingship though all things have not yet been put under his feet.

    I misspoke as I meant to say:

    Jesus has now ascended to the kingship though all things have not yet been put under his feet.

    Sorry, I did not catch my mistake earlier.

    #793677
    DavidL
    Participant

    So when Jesus hands the Kingdom back to the Father in 1 Cor 15 what happens to this EQUALITY you speak of?

    The Father does not die so any inheritance does not mean equality.

    ” Son … Himself … subject—not as the creatures are, but as a Son voluntarily subordinate to, though co-equal with, the Father. In the mediatorial kingdom, the Son had been, in a manner, distinct from the Father. Now, His kingdom shall merge in the Father’s, with whom He is one; not that there is thus any derogation from His honor; for the Father Himself wills “that all should honor the Son, as they honor the Father” (Joh 5:22, 23; Heb 1:6).”

    Bible Commentary

    http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb//1_corinthians/15.htm

     

     

    #793678
    kerwin
    Participant

    AndrewAD,

    I believe Jesus is now King of everything in heaven and on earth but I mistyped and so typed “not” in stead of “now” in my previous post. I then failed to catch my error until today.

    #793679
    DavidL
    Participant

    Your definition?

    Or that of scripture?

    I have given many references..

    maybe you zoomed over them..?

    #793681
    kerwin
    Participant

    David,

    Jesus the Anointed is a co-regent with God in they both are Lord over all things in heaven and on earth but he is still subject to the one and only God.

    I believe Nick already quoted the Scripture that teaches us God did not place himself under Jesus.

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