What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 341 through 360 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #790855
    Anastas
    Guest

    “Look, we know Jesus is going to return for a bride without spot and blemish. And we see the signs of his coming. Why stumble at the last hurdle? Pride is not worth it. Listen to Jesus Christ. He is the Lord. Leave your ego out of it.”

    I liked this comment very much, well said.

    Unfortunately, there are those that hear and there are those who do not.

    You (T8) and our friend DavidL have been debating for the longest time, sometimes nicely, sometimes not. I can not help but feel that his heart is set and only God can bring him to the truth. Only God can open a hard heart and only if He wills it. This ongoing debate makes me wonder if you speak in vain… as if you were giving what is holy to the dogs, or pearls to the swine only for the Word to be trampled. Both parties have made their points; both have had their word and nothing is accomplished. Any seed that could be sowed is sowed.

    2 Timothy 2:23 and 25 “Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels… those who oppose, him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”

    At some point, however, you must say “even the dust from your city, that cleaveth to our feet, we wipe off against you”.

    God’s will be done.

    #790856
    Admin
    Keymaster

    I wholeheartedly agree with your above post Anastas. However there is a difference that I will explain and I would appreciate your view on this.

    Ordinarily if I were conversing with DavidL in private, I would have started ignoring him along time ago for two reasons. One because he is stubborn and I would be wasting my time, and two because the more I debate with him and give him scripture the more damage he does to himself when he rejects the scriptures I give him, thus it would be better for him if I didn’t give him scripture that I know he would trample underfoot.

    That said, the discussion we are having is not private, but public. And if I chose to ignore him, then the pages would soon be filled with his negative criticism and misquotes and all who read here would only then get his view in the comments. Would that be fair to the readers, especially those who are undecided?

    Paul wrote in Titus 1:9:
    He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

    We also know that all things, lies, doctrines, ideas will be made subject to Christ. So do we continue to shine light in all areas of darkness, or not.

    I appreciate your view on this. Thanks in advance.

    #790857
    Anastas
    Guest

    Ahhh wise words indeed. My mistake, Shine on, brother!

    #777125
    Pietas
    Guest

    people like to say that Thomas called Jesus God but he probably was just saying that in utter excitement similar to how we say “OMG” today.

    #777126
    Admin
    Keymaster

    He said, my Lord and my God. He could have said, “my Lord and God” if he were referring to the same person. There is a double use of ‘my’ suggesting that he could have been referring to Jesus and the Father.

    In scripture it is common to see Jesus and God being referred to in the same sentence.

    e.g., 1Corinthians 1:3
    Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    #777127
    Anastas
    Guest

    The Messiah is the image of God and God’s representative having the fullness of the Father within him. When he made this exclamation he was not claiming that our Lord was God but that he actually seen God in or through him. Our Lord shows us the unseen God so that we may know Him.

    God’s mercy and peace in Christ.

    #777128
    Bernard Kirembu
    Guest

    Jesus tells Satan in Matthew 4:10, “You must worship the Lord your God and serve Him only”. John B. Noss has written, “Satan desires man to worship him instead of the true God. When he can’t achieve his primary goal then his next desire is to get man to worship anything other than the true God”.

    #777129
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Interesting comment.

    #790858
    DavidL
    Participant

    so t8 – one has to wonder why you continually try to frustrate my communication on your site regarding the trinity..

    #790859
    DavidL
    Participant

    Let Scripture interpret Scripture – “We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” – 1 John 5:19,20

    #790860
    Admin
    Keymaster

    DavidL, take off your bias glasses and you will see that the one who is true (God) has a son. So if the one who is true is Jesus, then please explain to me more about Jesus’s son. You see what you want to see, but I have pointed out the truth of the matter and you know that Jesus does not have a son called Jesus, thus it is clearly and only referring to the Father as the true God.

    And you know this is not the only verse that calls the Father, the true God, so it is a repeated truth in scripture.

    Jesus said, “eternal life is this, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    #790861
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Not sure what you mean. But I will defend the truth that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah and not even teh Gates of Hell can destroy that truth. Anything contradictory is a lie.

    #790862
    Admin
    Keymaster

    1 Peter 1-3

    #790863
    DavidL
    Participant

    #790864
    Admin
    Keymaster

    I notice you are posting a lot of videos lately. Have you run out of ideas yourself?

    #790865
    DavidL
    Participant

    the truth is confirmed in the testimony of not just what one person says – howbeit, this particular video WAS my idea 🙂

    #790866
    Admin
    Keymaster

    And more importantly, the truth is confirmed in scripture. Even when 10,000 men might say something, if it contradicts scripture, then those 10,000 men are wrong.

    #790867
    DavidL
    Participant

    SO…(deep breath)…we both believe…that WHAT we believe…is what the SCRIPTURES teach…and yet…our beliefs CONTRADICT each other…

    SO…(another deep breath)…someones INTERPRETATION or UNDERSTANDING of Scripture is wrong…you say it’s mine – and I say it’s yours…

    YOU SAY (quoting John 17:3)…the Father is the ONLY true God, and Jesus is the one whom God sent…you also say that I do not believe this, because I call Jesus ‘God’ as well as the Father..

    I SAY…I do believe this, and the reason I can still call Jesus ‘God’ in the light of this one verse is because Jesus also said, ‘I and the Father are ONE.’ – that is, the Son whom the ONLY true God sent is actually perfectly united WITH the ONLY true God (His Father)…neither is it strange or conflicting to hear Christ, in His humanity, refer to the Father as ‘the ONLY true God’ considering that He is asking the Father to restore Him again to the Glory He once had WITH the Father before His earthly existence..a Glory we know (from John’s testimony) that was not just being WITH God – BUT AS GOD HIMSELF – ONE WITH THE FATHER..!!

    #790868
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Take another breath. Jesus said that eternal life was to know the only true God who is the Father, and to also know the one the Father sent which is the son who is Jesus Christ.

    I am imagining lots of short deep breaths after reading that.

    #790869
    DavidL
    Participant

    (long boring sigh)…so this is it..!! Some people want to understand, but you are only interested in expounding your own theories…

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