What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 321 through 340 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #790835
    DavidL
    Participant

    if it is wrong to worship anyone except God – how can we worship Jesus the Lamb, in the presence of God..?

    #790836
    Admin
    Keymaster

    DavdiL, we have heard all your arguments before. Let me use scripture to dispel this argument of yours.

    Did you know that many are worshipped, but only the Father is worshipped as God. Jesus is worshipped as the Lamb and the son of God. Kings are worshipped as kings such as we see in 1 Kings 1:23. And other men are worshipped legitimately as you will see.

    Matthew 14:33
    Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

    Revelation 5: 12-14
    12 In a loud voice they sang: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
    13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
    14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

    Revelation 3:9
    Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    #790837
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Jesus said that his sheep hear his voice.
    And he spoke this: “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ who he has sent.

    #790838
    DavidL
    Participant

    Jesus Christ, all through His earthly carnation as a man, acknowledged and glorified the Father as God – the only true God…just like He also submitted Himself to be baptized by the prophet John, when John himself shrank from such a position…why.? Simply because he recognized the Divinity of the Son..and how, in reality, Jesus should actually have baptized him, but in this, as in other places, we see how it was the role of His earthly mission to fulfill that mission in His humanity (not His Divinity)..for how else could we follow in His footsteps..!

    #790839
    DavidL
    Participant

    It is so obvious how you ‘use’ this verse to wrongly deny the Trinity..

    #790840
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Jesus clearly said that the Father is the one true God. So I am not going to be persuaded by an external doctrine that tries to change it. It is obvious what Jesus said. But you harden your heart. Why be like the Pharisees. They did the same with his words. Made all kinds of accusations against him and accused him of saying this and that. At one point, they even twisted his words to say that he was claiming to be God and Jesus reminded them of the usage of ‘theos’ by quoting “you are elohim, you are all sons of the Most High God”. He then followed with, “why persecute me for saying I am the son of God”.

    But what do you do? Like the Jews you say that he was claiming to be God. Then you claim that I am Arian, when in actual fact I just give you scriptures as they are plainly written. Then in order to mix it up a little, you say that once you have the Spirit then it is all read through the lens of the Trinity. If this was true, then why is that not written. You just made that up.

    Look, we know Jesus is going to return for a bride without spot and blemish. And we see the signs of his coming. Why stumble at the last hurdle? Pride is not worth it. Listen to Jesus Christ. He is the Lord. Leave your ego out of it.

    #790841
    Admin
    Keymaster

    And replace the wine of Babylon for the wine of God. Best to be drunk on the Spirit than drunk on the wine of Babylon. For the whole world is drunk on her wine. Why number yourself with them. Do not partake of their table.

    #790842
    DavidL
    Participant

    Only if one assumes BEFORE HAND that God is unipersonal (a completely individual entity) can one conclude that John 17:3 proves that only the Father is true God. (Matt Slick)

    #790843
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Biblical Trinity doctrine is defined as follows: “There is only one God, made up of three distinct Persons who exist in co-equal, co-eternal communion as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”

    Here are the groups that deny the trinity: Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Science, Armstrongism, Christadelphians, Oneness Pentecostals, Unification Church, Unity School of Christianity, Scientology – Dianetics, Dawn Bible Students, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, United Church of God, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Living Church of God, Members Church of God International, Swedenborgianism, Branhamism…(btw the Qur’an teaches that the doctrine of Trinity is blasphemous)…

    You accuse those who believe the Trinity of being part of Babylon…but as you can see, when you stray from the true teaching of Scripture and deny the Trinity, it is you that has entered the world of cult Christianity without even knowing it…

    #790844
    Admin
    Keymaster

    DavidL, many cults deny the Trinity and many cults accept the Trinity such as the RCC. It is the foundation of the false Roman Church and through her history she has martyred the saints, while these other cults have not or perhaps have killed few. It is her that has the blood of the martyrs on her hands. Of the cults, she is the worst kind.

    Satan is the adversary. He promotes this Babylonian doctrine in order to make the world that believes in a God as drunk. For those who do not believe in God, he gives them Evolution. For those who know that there is a God and that the Father is the one true God, then he gives them the JWs and other cults. The idea is to never join a cult and subscribe to a man-made creed. Instead, believe scripture as it is written and know GOd personally.

    Our adversary is many steps ahead of you DavidL. He has out-thought you on many fronts. You have fallen for his scheming. In what way you ask? Where he sets up cults that do not believe in the Trinity, thereby proving that the Trinity is true to your mind at least. That is the lie you have accepted according to what you have written in your post. You have swallowed the bait. Do you honestly not think that he has all bases covered. Remember he has deceived the whole world. He is not stupid. Do not underestimate him. You have access to the Spirit and scripture and that is enough. Once you partake in one of his schemes, he then has a foothold in what you believe.

    #790845
    Admin
    Keymaster

    @ DavidL.
    You say: “Only if one assumes BEFORE HAND that God is unipersonal (a completely individual entity) can one conclude that John 17:3 proves that only the Father is true God. (Matt Slick)”.

    What a joke. I would not trade that slick guys comment for the words of the Lord Jesus Christ ever. And it appears that you believe this slick guys words over Jesus.

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    Jesus also said, “my sheep hear my voice”.

    This is how we know the sheep. They hear his voice and are not led astray by other so-called shepherds. I wouldn’t follow Athanasius or Slick if you paid me. Jesus is my Lord.

    #790846
    DavidL
    Participant

    You quote the words of Scripture to deny the truth of Scripture – this is what Satan does..

    Proverbs says, “The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.” (21:16)

    Your teaching about Babylon/Trinity shows you have wandered from the revelation of God’s Word (the way of understanding)…you have now joined the world of the cults – “the congregation of the dead” (those that are without the Spirit)..

    #790847
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    Yes Satan tries to deny this and what better way than to make every subject to an extra-biblical doctrine. The Trinity has served him well, but it is God’s time to come out of her now. She will be judged and God calls his people out so they are not judged with her.

    #790848
    DavidL
    Participant

    Your method of debate here is really a good example of how cults use the truth of Scripture to initiate their false doctrine…

    #790849
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Here’s the thing. You are short on scripture and long on opinions. Opinions mean nothing when they contradict scripture.

    Plus we can quote scripture as it is, and you still oppose us.

    Jesus said, this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Jesus said here that the only true God is his Father.

    And you oppose this and accuse me of cultist behavior. Yet I do not say this, Jesus does. So what you say about me you are really saying about him. You are persecuting Jesus Christ. It is better to be one of his sheep and hear his voice than hear an opposing voice such as Athanasius or the Vatican. And putting up with accusations or suffering persecution because of Jesus Christ is blessed.

    Matthew 10:22
    You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

    #790850
    DavidL
    Participant

    this is your delusion…and so you must live with it, but rather than upholding the words of Jesus and Scripture (as you pretend) you mis-use both…Eternal life, as Jesus said, is in God AND…His SON (Two are ONE)..the very scriptures you use to deny the truth are in fact opposing what you teach…

    You use the humanity of Christ to deny His Divinity…and so fall into a trap of your own making…

    Jesus said, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good – except God alone.” Here again, like the verse you quote, Jesus is magnifying the Father and denying Himself….but if you think about it, Was Jesus – the Sinless One, good..?? Of course He was..!! And is it wrong to call Him good….??????????

    #790851
    Becky
    Participant

    David,

    You really need to look up divinity, because no one is denying Christ divinity. Divinity means godlike qualities, which jesus certainly has being the son of god. But being divine in no way means he is god. By say he is god is saying that he is a liar. Jesus told us that he is the son of god and to worship the father in spirit and truth. But by saying that Jesus is god aren’t we then worshiping him and not who he told us to. It is very sad when people can’t take our savior at his word.

    #790852
    Admin
    Keymaster

    That is true Becky. If Jesus came from God in the beginning, then his source is the Divine making him divinity because there was nothing else, no other nature at that point. Also, we can partake of divine nature, yet we will never be God himself.

    Most confusion about what Jesus is comes from the lack of understanding with identity and nature. They think divine nature or the form of God makes you God. But nature and identity are two different things.

    Case in point. Eve is not Adam even though she is in the form of adam. Adam was the first man, and adam is the word for man. But Adam and adam have different meanings. One identifies a person and the other is a nature. When we see the word ‘theos’ we also need to be aware that it is not always the Most High Theos that is being idenitfied, e.g., Jesus said, “ye are theos” and there is no definite article preceding that, so he wasn’t saying “Ye are God”.

    #790853
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Pretty much your whole post above is in error because I do not deny that eternal life is from God and through his son. This is the very thing I teach. It is you who is denying God and his son. Because God and his son (as you say) is two and you say that there is one God. So you even slip up with your own doctrine and admit that there is God and his son.

    You then rattle on about me denying Christ’s divinity on behalf of his humanity. You are so making a hash of what I am teaching and because of that, your opinions of me (as there are many) are even more worthless if you do not even understand what I teach. You should not judge when you are not even able to understand what I teach. I say this for your own good. It worries me little what men may think of me. I mostly care what God thinks about me.

    And is it wrong to call Jesus good? Is it wrong to call John the Baptist good? Jesus was correctly pointing out that all his own goodness came from God, thus he was not to be credited for it. Only God is good, and we as with Jesus can share that goodness if we allow God to to good in us. It is clear from scripture that Jesus had his own will, but always did God’s will over his own such as we see when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane just before his death.

    #790854
    DavidL
    Participant

    Divinity….god/GOD…lies/truth –

    is Jesus a god…? or is the Son equal to the Father as GOD…!?!

    The bottom line is *HOW* do you gain your understanding…is it through intellectual pursuit – or is it by Spiritual revelation….? One is the foundation of the denominational Church – the other the foundation of the true Church.

    I know why I believe what I believe…and it’s very clear why you believe what you believe – you have shown us by what uninspired teachings your understanding has been shaped…

    You THINK you know the truth – but sadly you oppose the revelation of Scripture over your own reasoning of Scripture..you have become Spiritually blind, and now you grope around in the dark, and by the flickering shadow of your own imagination you presume you are right on track – when really you have long since wandered from the true path.

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