What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 301 through 320 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #790825
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    there is something that I have learn while I was reading the scriptures for answers ,and one question came to my mind ,and those where the words I think john said ;”that God love those that love him “and so this came to my mind ,how can someone be love by God ,and what is it that those persons have or do so that they have God’s love ???

    so it came to me that I say in my mind well look at all those people that God has loved through history of his people ,starting with Abel ,and all away to John (apostle)and look at who they are how they have been chosen,blessed,and why ,what did they have in them that was special to others men,more question about them came to my mind as I was reading it ,but when I went through the all scriptures again but when it was done ,man was I richer than ever ,I came and understood my heavenly father way better than wen I started for my answers ,and since then feel very close to him and his son ,because I also dig into the relationship and how to be come one with him and his father ,some of the understanding will come through your heart not the mind ,because love is from the heart ,a great feeling that you are never alone again ,

    #790826
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Yes true that. When we give up seeking we give up finding because we become so full of ourselves and our own understanding that there is no room for God.

    This is why I don’t like these creeds. They basically get men to believe them, and once they hand over their mind to it, then there is no more seeking because they mistakenly believe they already have it.

    Life is a journey where we never stop learning because God is eternal. There is always much more for us around each corner, if only we have eyes to see and ears to hear.

    #790827
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    We should never forget has we read the scriptures that it is not about us ,in any way ,what God does his done for his glory and his name so that his name stands as holy ,and truthful, this is what is important because of the accuser ,Satan, so all the works and plan. Are to vindicate God name,so we should look in scriptures how he will accomplish that ,and how can we help God,s work and save us at the same time, if we believe in him and his son then we have made his glory and truth in us stand out against the accuser ,

    #790828
    DavidL
    Participant

    so…because I trust the Scriptures you give me a condescending lecture about false teaching…??!!??!!

    Ha ha ha your advice is good – only misdirected..!!

    If you yourself would consider your own advice and the things you accuse me of..you might actually find yourself closer to the mark..!!

    #790829
    DavidL
    Participant

    good advice, and the very reason why those who attack the Trinity are so off track..they simply cannot accept what the Scripture itself testifies of..

    #777115
    DavidL
    Participant

    I consider your teaching about the Trinity to be false for the simple reason that it is NOT inspired of the Spirit..your concepts do not come from God but from your own logic…those who teach MUST have the Holy Spirit..(“..for they know not the voice of strangers.” – John 10:5)

    All teaching in Scripture is inspired of God – but when man attempts to dissect it logically he corrupts it immediately..! Scripture is designed to be understood solely by the work of the Holy Spirit..!

    When Jesus said to Peter, “Do you love Me…Feed My sheep.” I believe He is showing that a teacher has nothing to give the sheep unless it has come out of that personal love-relationship with the Shepherd…and this food is ‘revelation’ based, NOT ‘logic’ based..! (heart not head – spiritual not carnal).

    #790830
    DavidL
    Participant

    You suggest that I’m ‘out of my depth’…and I think in a sense you are right…the degree of your spiritual blindness is no match for me – if you deny the clear revelation of Scripture I cannot help you…sadly no one can..!

    You said that you knew me in the past, and even shared with me about God long before I was saved… unfortunately I cannot recall this, but I see now why you failed to impact my life for God – sadly you lack the power and influence of the Holy Spirit in your life…..

    I also think that if you weren’t so deluded about doctrine and Scripture…we might have been friends…

    #777116
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    David, says man his a trinity as well ,

    and God his one as well ,and so all living creatures beings that is ,

    could you explain that to me ???,you seem so certain of your knowledge on this ,

    #790831
    DavidL
    Participant

    “Jesus said to him, ‘Away from me, Satan! For it is written: Worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.'” – Matthew 4:10

    We worship Jesus, the Son of God because He is [one with] GOD…

    I don’t know how you worship Jesus – but the way we worship the Lord is the same way we worship God..!!

    If I were to use your explanation and worship any other creature (including king David) the way I worship Jesus – it would be completely wrong and out of place – it would be utter idolatry..! because the LORD our God is ONE and it is HIM only we are to worship..!!

    We worship Jesus because He is God – One with the Father…!!!

    #777117
    DavidL
    Participant

    This was just an interesting thought that came from looking at the first chapter of Genesis – (because John in his opening verse of his gospel directs our attention back to the very first verse of the Bible – “In the beginning God…” it is as if he writes again this verse, only, he inserts Jesus as the Word to reveal to us the Deity of Christ… acting with God – AS GOD – in the creation of the world), but when you carry on to verse 26 you read of God saying, in a plural sense, “Let *US* make man in *OUR* image”…so right here at the beginning we have one our first indications that God is not a single individual…and interestingly it happens to be right at the very moment when He is considering making ‘man’ – in His own Image…!!!

    So the thought naturally comes that, if God is indeed Triune..and man is created in His image…then maybe it would be natural to assume that man himself may bare some indication of God’s triune nature…(which he obviously does..!!)

    Yet of course this must be denied by those who have an invested interest in suppressing the truth – those deceitful so-called teachers who put their own egotistical arguments above the revelation of the Word..!

    #777118
    Admin
    Keymaster

    God made all things through his Word and Jesus Christ is the Word of God. “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

    Did it not occur to you that what scripture is saying is that God made all things through and for our Lord Jesus Christ? You even say yourself, “So the thought naturally comes that, if God is indeed Triune.” I agree this is natural thinking. Then you say, ” acting with God – AS GOD”. Well when you act with God, then you are not God but you are with him.
    And we know that all things came from God and through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Why do we need to turn this into a Trinity teaching. We do not have Trinity on the brain. So we just want to let the scripture teach us with a renewed mind, not an already made up mind.

    Why does everything for you have to relate to a third to fourth century doctrine that was compiled by Athanasius on behalf of a Roman Emperor and his empire which later killed millions who disagreed with their false foundation?

    Why become part of the religious establishment that is guilty of the blood of the martyrs?

    #777119
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Here is a little secret that is really obvious, but many do not understand it.

    If you start with your mind being convinced of a doctrine, then no matter what the evidence against it, you will find a way to point it to your doctrine. If you soak a sponge in vinegar, then you can extract vinegar from a sponge. But if you do not soak vinegar in a sponge, then you will extract that which is originally in the sponge.

    If you start with the Trinity Doctrine, then you will twist scripture toward the Trinity and ignore all the scriptures that you cannot twist. If you start with a belief that there is no God, then all science will point you to there being no God.

    But if you start with humility and read the scriptures so as to learn the truths of God contained within, then you will renew your mind and with that renewed mind, you will gain an ever-increasing depth of understanding in scripture and in life, making you able to consume the meat of the Word, and to rightly divide the Word, so as to teach it with all faithfulness toward God with a good conscience.

    #777120
    Admin
    Keymaster

    In other words you do not have an answer and so move it toward accusation instead. This is what they did to Jesus because they had no answer for him.

    #790832
    Admin
    Keymaster

    This is your own thinking DavidL.
    You say: “We worship Jesus, the Son of God because He is [one with] GOD…”.

    Scripture says that men worship Jesus as the son of God and the Lamb of God. Have you not read how a multitude give honour unto God and to the Lamb. Who is God? Who is the Lamb? Deep down you know the answer.

    Your hypothesis that we worship Jesus because he is one with God is false. If it were true, then why is it not written. Further, Jesus encourages us to be one with God. Therefore according to your reason, we are God too. That is the outcome of your teaching here.

    #790833
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Was Jesus spirtually blind for saying, “this is eternal life, that you may know the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.

    Yet when I say exactly the same in my own words, I am spiritually blind. Perhaps I should point out the obvious. What you say about me believing this, you also say it about Jesus. Because I only am repeating his words. I am the only the messenger because they are not my words, but Jesus. You shoot me, then you are really shooting at him.

    Why do you persecute him? Who? Jesus of Nazareth.

    #790834
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Was Jesus spiritually blind for saying, “this is eternal life, that you may know the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.

    Yet when I say exactly the same in my own words, I am spiritually blind. Perhaps I should point out the obvious. What you say about me believing this, you also say it about Jesus. Because I only am repeating his words. I am the only the messenger because they are not my words, but Jesus. You shoot me, then you are really shooting at him.

    Why do you persecute him? Who? Jesus of Nazareth.

    #777121
    DavidL
    Participant

    even Jesus, the Light of the World, couldn’t change the thinking of those set in their own false doctrines…sure I could keep answering your questions but for one, I don’t have the luxury of spending so much time in the discussion of Scripture, and secondly, especially with one who I think really just likes endless debate…and a debate I believe that is already many centuries old..yet the answer is easily enough discerned if one abide in the teaching of Scripture with the guidance of the Spirit..it is the plain revelation of God’s Word, that lies at odds with the carnal thinking of man…hence the endlessness nature of this matter..

    #777122
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    this is true ,for everything ,and in everything ;that is what is commonly known as politics ,and expression in wording ,I was looking at the news in Canada about the scandal of some senators ,you probably heard of it by now ;listen to their mutual explanation it seems that they are both right ,except that only one holds the stick of power ,and most people seems to forget that we as men do not hold the stick of power when facing God our creator ,and wisdom should teach us to listen the power above us ,and not following men teachings of confusion .

    #777123
    Admin
    Keymaster

    In a nutshell this is what you are saying DavidL.

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.

    You say that once we are born again, it becomes, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only God who is triune made up of three persons”, and Jesus Christ whom the other one or two of the members of this triune God sent.

    Excuse me if I don’t believe a word of it DavidL.

    What next?

    I mean when you read that verse, do the words actually change as I said above. Please explain, I really want to know how this works.

    #777124
    Admin
    Keymaster

    In a nutshell this is what you are saying DavidL.

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.

    You say that once we are born again, it becomes, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only God who is triune made up of three persons”, and Jesus Christ whom the other one or two of the members of this triune God sent.

    Excuse me if I don’t believe a word of it DavidL.

    What next?

    I mean when you are born again and then read that verse, do the words actually change as I said above. Please explain, I really want to know how this works for you. Or is it some kind of code that you need a special revelation to see the hidden (occult) meaning?

    Call me simple or old fashioned but I just believe what he said and it is clear for anyone and is to be taken as he said it.

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