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The man who was given visions of the end from the beginning

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  • July 28, 2004 at 8:43 pm#4212
    Anonymous
    Guest

    it borrows too much from much earlier writings to be considered as much more than an elegant fraud. It deals with magic which was prohibited among the Jews and also by giving the names of the demons, ascribes a form of honor to them not found in sacred scripture – For example- the bible does not dignify or personify Satan by giving us his name which would have been an honorable one before his rebellion in the garden of eden

    July 29, 2004 at 1:16 am#4213
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Interesting. Excuse my ignorance but where does Lucifer come from and is Satan just a descriptive name?

    August 5, 2004 at 11:20 pm#4214
    Dinah
    Participant

    I witnessed a President assassinated one day,,,and a whole government stood silent…The Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court wrote and toled the Nation a LIE…..Oswald acting alone is a LIE…..seven yrs ago I started a quest to find out just what it was that could silence a whole government….A president was murdered, a lie was told, the whole world knows it!s a lie, and yet the whole world accepts it…..that can only be achieved by a Presence, or an Influence, beyond human recognition…..SATAN…..the stench of Masonry is so strong in Washington, that it hardly needs cleaning up after it!self……and there came a day when the Sons of GOD came before the LORD….and Satan was among them, and when asked where he had been….he said ..to and fro the earth, walking up and down in it…checking out his place of recidency……He is called many names…….and one very important one is……THE PRINCE OF THE POWERS OF THE AIR…..in other words he not only can walk among you but ,,but reign over the clouds above you……The one thing Washington does NOT DO…..is acknowledge U F O!s…..You never here a word fom Washington of those amazing craft that defy!s the laws of physics…. for a reason,,,,Washington knows just who they are..

    I have just had the delightfull opportunity to read The Book of Enoch…..and was absolutely floored when I realized he was relating his experience in a U F O. I am convinced that this book not only was left out because of various reasons,,but was left out on purpose for two reasons……

    The Sons of GOD [ who the Masons call themselves] mating with Humans,,,,and had this book been included in the Bible
    Christianity would be aware of who they are ” in the powers of the air” Satan took over the Church that Christ built before they even took JESUS of the cross……

    Do any of you realize just what a blow this book is to Masonry,
    THE BOOK OF ENOCH MAKES MASONRY NO LONGER SECRET,,
    AND SATAN COULDN!T HAVE WORKED HIS CHARM TO THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH…

    August 6, 2004 at 3:53 am#4215
    MrBob
    Participant

    Where does it say anything about a UFO? ???

    Just wondering.

    August 6, 2004 at 11:59 pm#4216
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Mr. Bob……….He doesn!t say………U F O ……..start with ch 14-8              ch17-1    they raised me up into a certain place, where there was an appearance of a burning fire, and when they pleased they assumed the likeness of men
    ch51-1  after that period in the place where I had seen every secret thing, I was snatched up in a whirlwind, and carried off westwards,  2  there my eyes beheld the secrets of heaven,————-etc  3    and I inquired of the angel who went with me , saying what are these things, which in secret I behold…..4  He said..all things which thou beholdest shall be for the dominion of the Messiah, that He may command, and be powerfull upon the earth[millenium]
    ch41-2  there too, my eyes beheld the secrets of lightning and the thunder,and the secrets if the winds, how they are disturbed as they blow over the earth, the secrets of the winds, of the dew, and of the clouds…there I perceived the place from which they issued forth, and became saturated with the dust of the earth……..he just touched  down ………He!s in a UFO  the angels are aliens ……
    the Fallen Angels took the likeness of man and took for themselves wives,  and slept with them and begat giants and polluted the dna of  GODS  CREATION………and HE bound them in chains for 70 generations,,,,,or untill the SON OF MAN SETS FOOT ON THE EARTH…….And then they will be loosed for a little while [ as John says] to start the abomination of the earth……..this book was purposely left out of the Cannon because of Satan!s influence,,,,,IT EXPOSES WHO THEY ARE…….THE PRINCE OF THE POWERS OF THE AIR…….
    THEY BEEN LOOSED EVER SINCE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST AND HAVE BEEN ON THIS PLANET PLOTTING AND CONSPIRING AGAINST MANKIND EVER SINCE……MASONRY AND JUDAISM[KABALA] IS THEIR COMMUNICATION……AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE CROP CIRCLES,,,,,,,,THEM TWO DUMMIES IN ENGLAND WITH THEIR WOODEN BOARDS STRAPPED ON THEIR FEET ,,,,,,
    COULDN!T FOOL A PLAYGROUND…… regards  Duane

    August 12, 2004 at 7:29 pm#4217
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Interesting book. To me it highlighted the negative influence of the Nephilim of Gen 6. They seemed to bring to earth occult powers and practices and lust and violence.Certainly it was after that time that men could only expect to live 70-80 years instead of several hundreds as the influence of increased sin hastened death.

    I was also fascinated with the verses about the sheep, the wolves and the Shepherd-so similar to so many verses in the NT and OT.Also the mansions and paradise,the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the expansions of so many hints in the NT.

    I am sure that if looked at in the light of the Word this book may be very helpful and if it is quoted in Jude that gives it a seal of approval from God in my book.

    August 19, 2004 at 5:40 am#4218
    Anonymous
    Guest

    oh hey,

    i'm speaking from complete ignorance here – not actually having read the book of enoch – but i'm not sure i understand why jude quoting it, constitutes god's approval?

    i'm sure this is a very heretical comment, but while paul says all scripture is god-breathed, and peter says that paul writes with the wisdom god has given him, i don't recall any passage which says what constitutes and does not constitute scripture… and as we've seen with the “trinity” debate, church tradition is not a valid explanation…

    anyway, perhaps this is a post for another thread…

    cheers,

    nate.

    August 20, 2004 at 3:51 am#4219
    ringo111
    Participant

    Nick H

    Quote
    I am sure that if looked at in the light of the Word this book may be very helpful and if it is quoted in Jude that gives it a seal of approval from God in my book.

    Dont be too hasty there, It seems to me that someone took an existing scripture, and forged what we call 'the book of enoch' current version. Using this quote because it was kept in the bundlings of books people liked to keep as christian writings?

    and… wasnt this book written much after the new testiment??

    Im sure the original one that jude quoted was legit, and most probably only that line, or a series of lines were taken from legitiment writings. The rest being added by someone. For no-where else in testing, does the bible agree at all with many of the consepts in this 'book of enoch'

    August 31, 2004 at 1:19 pm#4220
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Trembling to its fall
    Putting and end to it all
    By storm, by force
    With might… without remorse
    We are here to conquer this world
    Like cancer… our hate consumes the light of elysium
    Unstoppable force of demonic supremacy
    All destroying…all devouring
    Heaven now ravaged… scarred and empty
    Strike the death knell of the pandemonium
    Imbrue one's hands in the blood of christ
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the trinity
    He raped…the culture of mankind
    He raped…the pride of the ancient ways
    He raped…all thought of freewill
    I who will watch you fall into obscurity
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the ####### trinity
    I spit upon your deity
    Supposed creator of all things
    Idol of irreverence you worship above
    Show your true face… the image of prevarication
    Unhallowed be our twilight
    Thy grace untriumphant
    Mourn the crowning of unconquerable profanation
    Hell's grim tyrant…the eldest of night and chaos
    Breathe once again…far from the shadow of god
    This day of reckoning will be unavenged
    Glory of wrathful inignation
    I deny god and all religion
    Turn up the whites of their eyes… Dechristianize
    Our poisonous truths
    Divinity…drowning in impurity
    Unconquerble…unstoppable
    Sanguilent in your agony
    Like cancer… our hate consumes the light of elysium
    Unstoppable force of demonic supremacy
    All destroying…all devouring
    Heaven now ravaged… scarred and empty
    Strike the death knell of the pandemonium
    Imbrue one's hands in the blood of christ
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the trinity
    He raped…the culture of mankind
    He raped…the pride of the ancient ways
    He raped…all thought of freewill
    I who will watch you fall into obscurity
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the ####### trinity
    Dechristianize…Dechristianize…Dechristianize…Dechristianize…
    Hell's grim tyrant…the eldest of night and chaos
    Breathe once again…far from the shadow of god
    This day of reckoning will be unavenged
    Glory of wrathful inignation
    I deny god and all religion
    Turn up the whites of their eyes… Dechristianize…
    Dechristianize

    September 2, 2004 at 1:52 am#4221
    ringo111
    Participant

    Wish you'd come back mohummad>

    Quote
    Engulfing the ####### trinity

    Many of us who call ourselves christions believe the trinity is a lie. Men, having err'd from the origional belief. For the disciples of Jesus Called him a prophet of GOD, and not GoD himself.

    September 2, 2004 at 3:52 pm#4222
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Some who call themselves Christians aren't really Christians at all.  In fact, some are devils posing as Christians trying to spread their evil and undermine the name of the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

    September 3, 2004 at 5:50 am#4223
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey james,

    what you say is true… but who will cast the first stone?

    surely no man knows the whole truth?

    cheers,

    nate.

    September 3, 2004 at 8:50 pm#4224
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Enoch new the whole truth, because GOD wanted him to know it. He is/was a man.

    I don't know who will cast the 1st stone but I will consciously question all information available to me.

    September 4, 2004 at 10:02 am#4225
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey james,

    i agree that we should consciously question all things, but that means withholding judgement – firstly because there is only one fit judge, and secondly because whatever measure we use to judge, will be used in judgement against us (by the almighty).

    as to enoch – i don't know whether it could be established that he knew the whole truth… certainly we are told that he walked with god, and god took him… we have references of his seeing things which no man has seen in the book of enoch, but as far as i can tell its authorship is still highly debateable…

    further to this, paul also says that he was taken into heaven and saw/heard things unmentionable – but even paul doesn't claim to know the whole truth, not to be without sin – in fact he is very honest about his fallibility…

    for we see only in part, but one day we will see the truth face to face…

    cheers,

    nate.

    September 20, 2004 at 5:20 pm#4226
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have a question

    how come certain satan or occult sects say that they should use the book of enoch?

    I haven't read it myself yet
    is it true it speak of God's Mistakes?

    thank you
    chris

    September 20, 2004 at 11:47 pm#4227
    NickHassan
    Participant

    I enjoyed the Book of Enoch as it clarifies so much about the roles of angels and fills in so many gaps about the supernatural heaven ,hell etc.

    God does not make mistakes as He knows the future.

    I also recently read the Apocryphal Book of 2 Esdras-available in any catholic bible-and anyone interested in endtimes should read it as it is very illuminating. It also speaks of 10 time periods as does Enoch.

    September 21, 2004 at 2:12 am#4228
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey guys,

    i don't quite understand how the book of enoch could have been written before the flood, saved by noah, taken with abraham out of ur, taken with the children of israel out of egypt, saved throughout all the years of the diaspora, and yet never spoken of by anyone in the bible except jude…

    i have to say, i'm rather dubious… i've asked a jew about this, and he said that he doesn't know anything about the book of enoch… you'd think that if it was so important as to be saved throughout all the years since the flood that there would be traditions about it…

    perhaps someone has a good explanation?

    cheers,

    nate.

    September 21, 2004 at 10:10 am#4229
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    A lot more could be said in this post, but James also quotes from the book. Quotations were also known from the Church Fathers.

    In the book it also says:

    Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 “And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables.”

    This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark.

    Also I think 7 copies of this book were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    The Book is like the bible in the sense that it has a number of different authors. So it is a collection.

    The opening verses of the Book of Enoch tell us that the revelations in this book were not meant for Enoch's generation, rather a remote generation, and of course the book would make more sense to the generations after Christ.

    I am however open to it being a fraud. But it is quite amazing what is written and it seems good too. There is however a debate on it's age, but UA researchers have carbon 14-dated bits of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the results discredit the controversial theory that some of the texts may have been the work of early Christians. So carbon dating (how reliable is that I am not sure) suggests that the scrolls predate christianity, yet it's writing seems christian.
    http://packrat.aml.arizona.edu/deadsea.html

    September 22, 2004 at 1:42 am#4230
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hey t8,

    um… where does james quote from it? is it explicit?

    as to carbon dating – this is the very same technique used to pronounce fossils as being hundreds of thousand of years old… in general, conditions dictate the rate of decay in carbon, and it is impossible to know with certainty what those conditions were generations after the event.

    i'm still dubious for several reasons… um… the book of enoch mentions rain, but there is some debate as to whether it ever rained before the flood – gen 2:5-6 says that it didn't rain, but i concede that this may only have been until that particular time… secondly, as i mentioned earlier, it doesn't feature in jewish tradition (as far as i'm able to assertain), which i think wouldn't be the case if it was definitive proof of the flood, etc… i'm also dubious of the concept of pre-flood literature, just because there is no evidence of such as thing…

    i must say that i'm a bit disappointed that it doesn't mention or describe mythical (or even prehistoric) creatures – of course there is a reference to behemoth and leviathan, but job mentions those also… this is another reason why i'm dubious…

    but i'm happy to be proved wrong… in fact, i would be happy to accept the veracity of the book if i could be convinced it was genuine – pre fall and pre flood stuff fascinates me… but the book seems like something anyone with a knowledge of old and new testament literature and language, and historical events could write… so whether this is genuinely what jude was quoting, that would at least solve one dilemma…

    cheers,

    nate.

    October 5, 2004 at 11:21 pm#4231
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The “sons of God” were the decendents of Adam through Seth. The “daughters of men” were the decendents of Cain. God's children were to be set apart from the world not to intermarry with the children of Cain. They were to be a set apart people that would lead down through the generations. From which the Messiah would be born.
    From Adam to Noah man began to increase in number on the earth, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the dauhgters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

    If the sons of God were angels, which God created only to appear as male, no female angels, why would he have made them with reproductive organs and an ability to reproduce?

    Why would their hormones cause them to be attracted to human women, since they were totally different kinds of beings?

    Why would they marry them? Why not just take them and rape them?

    Why would angel DNA be close enough to produce children with human women?

    The nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were heros of old, MEN of renown.
    The LORD saw how great man's wickedness had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. So the LORD was greived that he had made man on the earth and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said “I will wipe mankind from the face of the earth”;

    If the children of God were angels that forced themselves on human women, why does God punish man and animals with destruction and not the angel's who committed the crime?

    Strong's says Nephilim means (tyrants and bullies). A tyrant is a man like Saddam or Hitler not an angel. Man had become only with evil on his mind due to the intermarriage with the decendents of Cain, God's set apart children had become corrupt. Only Noah walked with God. God decided to destroy all of man except Noah and is family and thereby purge the evil and begin again to set apart a people through whom the Messiah would decend.
    D.

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