A message from a physicist and a message from a flat earther

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May 24, 2018 at 3:50 pm#829351
Dig4truth
Participant
Lightenup, what was the earth orbiting before the sun was made?
May 24, 2018 at 4:05 pm#829352
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Mike….You simply don’t seem to get it, you seem to lack the ability to see clearly, I told you from the start there is so much overwhelming proof the woeld is indeed round. That to say it is flat is impossible, completely impossible to ask anyone here to believe.
Yet you go forward as if none of what has been clearly presented means anything to you, something seem to prevent your ability to comprehend those proofs being given you.
Even in spritual matters, like denying God actually did speak through The mouth of the man Jesus. Did not Jesus plainly say, “the son of man can do “NOTHING” OF “HIMSELF”, THE Father who is “IN” HIM “HE” DOES THE WORKS”.
NICK AND I BOTH HAVE BOTH HAVE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH CONCERNING GOD THE FATHER SPEAKING DIRECTLY THROUGH THE MOUTH OF JESUS, AND SOME TIMES IN FIRST PERSON, BUT YOU NEED THE Spirit of truth to be “in” to reconize when that is happening in our scriptures. Without tbe spirit of truth in you , a person can’t pick up on it. Perhaps that is why you can’t understand the earth is indeed round, because you can’t decern the truth when it is presented to you Mike.
I hope and pray God the Father will open up you mind to the truth, i ask it in the name of Jesus for you Mike.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
May 24, 2018 at 4:16 pm#829353
Lightenup
Participant
Hi Dig4truth,
you asked:
Lightenup, what was the earth orbiting before the sun was made?
Seems to me that the orbit was set into motion on day 4. It is the orbit of the earth around the sun that gives us seasons. There was no orbit before day 4, imho.
Did you watch the video of Charlie Duke’s testimony? I really want to know what you think of it.
LU
May 24, 2018 at 4:49 pm#829354
Lightenup
Participant
Spoiler alert…the so-called “solid firmament” is not solid. Read on:
Mike said
Anthony said: Depending on the context, the word can refer to that which is immediately above us, where flying birds, clouds, and rain are.
Mike responded: Yes, that is the first heaven – which is never referred to by raqia, since it is not solid.

Genesis 1:20
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”
That word for “expanse” is definitely raqia…the birds fly in the raqia. That should end this thread, Mike. Your solid heaven has just been debunked.
Now we can move on. Mike you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate! Thank you Jesus for making the raqia!!
8But of the Son He says,
“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9“YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”
10And,
“YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
LU
May 24, 2018 at 9:14 pm#829359
Proclaimer
Participant
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”
That word for “expanse” is definitely raqia…the birds fly in the raqia. That should end this thread, Mike. Your solid heaven has just been debunked.
Now we can move on. Mike you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate!
Nice work.
May 24, 2018 at 9:19 pm#829361
Proclaimer
Participant
Hi Mike.
Not sure if you have seen this. If so, can you debunk it?
May 24, 2018 at 9:41 pm#829362
Proclaimer
Participant
List of Antarctic expeditions
Ignoring regular flights and satellite photos of the continent, there are real people who have explored the frozen continent. Below is a chronological list of expeditions involving Antarctica taken from Wikipedia
Pre-exploration theories
- 600 BC – 300 BC — Greek Philosophers theorize Spherical Earth with North and South Polar regions.
- 150 AD — Ptolemy published Geographia, which notes Terra Australis Incognita
Pre-19th century
- 7th century — Ui-te-Rangiora claimed to have sighted southern ice fields.
- 13th century — Polynesians settle Auckland Islands (50° S)^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]
- 1501–1502 — Gonçalo Coelho and Amerigo Vespucci potentially sail to (52° S)
- 1522 — Ferdinand Magellan – first circumnavigation discovers Strait of Magellan (54° S)
- 1578 — Francis Drake discovers Drake Passage
- 1599 — Dirk Gerritsz – potentially sails to (64° S)
- 1603 — Gabriel de Castilla – potentially sails to (64° S)
- 1615 — Jacob le Maire and Willem Schouten first to sail around Cape Horn cross (56° S)
- 1619 — Garcia de Nodal expedition – circumnavigate Tierra del Fuego and discover Diego Ramirez Islands (56°30′S 68°43′W)
- 1675 — Anthony de la Roché discovers South Georgia (54°15′00″S 36°45′00″W), the first ever land discovered south of the Antarctic Convergence
- 1698–1699 — Edmond Halley sails to (52° S)
- 1720 — Captain George Shelvocke – sails to (61° 30′ S)
- 1739 — Jean-Baptiste Charles Bouvet de Lozier – discovers Bouvet Island (54°26′S 3°24′E)
- 1771 — James Cook – HM Bark Endeavour expedition
- 1771–1772 — First French Antarctic Expedition – led by Yves-Joseph de Kerguelen-Trémarec discovers Kerguelen Islands (49°15′S69°35′E)
- 1772–1775 — James Cook – sails HMS Resolution crossing Antarctic Circle in January 1773 and December 1773. On 30 January 1774 he reaches 71° 10′ S, his Farthest South, coming within about 75 miles of the Antarctic mainland without seeing it.
19th century
- 1780s to 1839 — American and British whalers and sealers make incidental discoveries
- 1819 — William Smith discovers South Shetland Islands (62°00′S 058°00′W), the first land discovered south of 60° south latitude.
- 1819 — San Telmo wrecks in the Drake Passage off Livingston Island
- 1819–1821 — Fabian Gottlieb von Bellingshausen and Mikhail Lazarev, Admirals of Russian Imperial Navy, during Russian circumnavigation expedition, on 27 January 1820, discovers an ice shelf at Princess Martha Coast that later became known as the Fimbul Ice Shelf (69°21′28″S 2°14′50″W). Bellingshausen and Lazarev became the first explorers to see and officially discover the land of Antarctica.
- 1820 — Edward Bransfield with William Smith as his pilot – on 30 January 1820, sight Trinity Peninsula (63°37′S 058°20′W).
- 1820 — Nathaniel Palmer sights Antarctica on 17 November 1820
- 1821 — George Powell, a British sealer, and Nathaniel B. Palmer, an American sealer, discover the South Orkney Islands. Powell annexes them for the British.
- 1821 — John Davis – on 7 February 1821 disputed claim of setting foot on Antarctica at Hughes Bay (64°13′S 61°20′W)
- 1823–1824 — James Weddell discovers the Weddell Sea; – on 20 February 1823 his ship Jane (160 tons) reached a new Farthest South of 74° 15′ S (74°15′S 30°12′W)
- 1830–1833 — Southern Ocean Expedition led by John Biscoe, an English sealer; circumnavigates the continent, sets foot on Anvers Island, names and annexes Graham Land, discovers Biscoe Islands, Queen Adelaide Island (67.25°S 68.5°W) and sights Enderby Land (67°30′S 53°0′E)
- 1837–1840 — Second French Antarctic Expedition – led by Jules Dumont d’Urville; discovers Adelie Land and sets foot on an islet of Geologie Archipelago (66°36′19″S 140°4′0″E) 4 km from the mainland to take mineral and animal samples (66° S)
- 1838–1839 — John Balleny discovers Balleny Islands (66°55′S 163°45′E)
- 1838–1842 — United States Exploring Expedition – led by Charles Wilkes to Antarctic Peninsula (69°30′S 065°00′W) and eastern Antarctica; discovers “Termination Barrier” (“Shackleton Ice Shelf”)
- 1839–1843 — James Clark Ross‘s expedition of 1839 to 1843 discovered the Ross Ice Shelf, Ross Sea, Mount Erebus, Mount Terrorand Victoria Land; extended his Farthest South to 78° 10′ S on 23 January 1842
- 1851–1853 — Mercator Cooper landed on what is now known as Oates Coast in what is probably the first adequately-documented landing on the mainland of Antarctica.
- 1872–1876 — HMS Challenger under Capt. George S. Nares, becomes the first steamship to cross the Antarctic Circle; reopens the study of oceanography in the region after a 30-year gap.^[5]
- 1892–1893 — Carl Anton Larsen led the first Norwegian expedition to Antarctica aboard the ship Jason. Larsen became the first person to ski in Antarctica where the Larsen Ice Shelf was named after him.
- 1892–1893 — Dundee Whaling Expedition discover Dundee Island (63°30′S 055°55′W)
- 1893–1894 — Carl Anton Larsen led the second Norwegian expedition to Antarctica
- 1893–1895 — Henryk Bull, Carstens Borchgrevink and Alexander von Tunzelmann – set foot on Antarctica at Cape Adare
- 1897–1899 — Belgian Antarctic Expedition – led by Adrien de Gerlache; first to winter in Antarctica
- 1898–1900 — Southern Cross Expedition, Carsten Borchgrevink – sails to Cape Adare, winters on Antarctica and takes Farthest Southon 16 February 1900 at 78° 50′ S
20th century
- 1901–1904 — Discovery Expedition – led by Robert Falcon Scott, on 30 December 1903, reached (82° 17′S)
- 1901–1903 — Gauss expedition (or First German Antarctic Expedition) – led by Erich von Drygalski
- 1901–1903 — Swedish Antarctic Expedition – led by Otto Nordenskjöld with captain Carl Anton Larsen
- 1902–1904 — Scottish National Antarctic Expedition – led by William Speirs Bruce
- 1903–1905 — Third French Antarctic Expedition – led by Jean-Baptiste Charcot
- 1907–1909 — Nimrod Expedition – On 9 January 1909, Ernest Shackleton reached 88° 23 ′S (Farthest South), and on 16 January 1909, Professor Edgeworth David reached the South Magnetic Pole at (72°25′S 155°16′E) (mean position)
- 1908–1910 — Fourth French Antarctic Expedition – led by Jean-Baptiste Charcot
- 1910–1912 — Japanese Antarctic Expedition – led by Nobu Shirase
- 1910–1912 — Roald Amundsen’s South Pole expedition – On 14 December 1911, reached the South Pole (90° S)
- 1910–1913 — Terra Nova Expedition – On 17 January 1912, Robert Falcon Scott, reached the South Pole (90° S)
- 1911–1913 — Second German Antarctic Expedition – led by Wilhelm Filchner
- 1911–1914 — Australasian Antarctic Expedition – led by Douglas Mawson
- 1914–1916 — Imperial Trans-Antarctic Expedition – led by Ernest Shackleton
- 1914–1917 — Ross Sea Party – led by Aeneas Mackintosh
- 1920–1922 — British Graham Land Expedition – a British expedition to Graham Land led by John Lachlan Cope
- 1921–1922 — Shackleton-Rowett Expedition – led by Ernest Shackleton – the last expedition of the Heroic Age of Antarctic Exploration
- 1929–1931 — British Australian and New Zealand Antarctic Research Expedition (BANZARE) – led by Douglas Mawson
- 1928–1930 — Richard Evelyn Byrd – First expedition
- 1931 — H. Halvorsen – discovered Princess Astrid Coast
- 1931 — Hjalmar Riiser-Larsen – flew over Antarctica, discovered Kronprins Olav Kyst
- 1933–1935 — Richard Evelyn Byrd – Second expedition
- 1933–1939 — Lincoln Ellsworth – Aircraft expedition
- 1934–1937 — British Graham Land Expedition (BGLE) – led by John Riddoch Rymill
- 1936 — Lars Christensen – dropped Norwegian flag over Prince Harald Coast
- 1938 — Third German Antarctic Expedition (New Swabia, or Neuschwabenland, claimed for Nazi Germany) – led by Capt. Alfred Ritscher
- 1939–1941 — United States Antarctic Service Expedition – led by Richard Evelyn Byrd (Byrd’s third expedition)
- 1943–1945 — Operation Tabarin – led by Lieutenant James Marr
- 1946–1947 — Operation Highjump – led by Richard Evelyn Byrd (Byrd’s fourth expedition)
- 1947 — First Chilean Antarctic Expedition
- 1947–1948 — Operation Windmill – led by Commander Gerald Ketchum
- 1947–1948 — Ronne Antarctic Research Expedition – led by Finn Ronne
- 1949–1950 — Adelie-Land, Ship Commandant Charcot – led by Michel Barre
- 1949–1952 — Norwegian-British-Swedish Antarctic Expedition – led by John Giaever
- 1954 — Mawson Station established
- 1955–1956 — Operation Deep Freeze – led by Richard Evelyn Byrd (Byrd’s fifth expedition)
- 1955–1957 — Falkland Island Dependency Aerial Survey led by P G Mott
- 1955–1957 — 1st Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Mikhail Somov
- 1956 Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station established
- 1956–1958 — Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition – led by Vivian Fuchs
- 1956–1958 — 2nd Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Aleksei Treshnikov
- 1957–1958 — International Geophysical Year
- 1957–1958 — New Zealand Geological Survey Antarctic Expedition
- 1957 — Scott Base established
- 1957–1958 — Luncke Expedition
- 1957–1959 — 3rd Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Yevgeny Tolstikov
- 1958–1959 — New Zealand Geological Survey Antarctic Expedition
- 1958–1960 — 4th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Aleksandr Dralkin
- 1959–1961 — 5th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Yevgeny Korotkevich
- 1960 — South African National Antarctic Expedition
- 1960–1962 — 6th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by V.Driatsky
- 1961–1963 — 7th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Aleksandr Dralkin
- 1962–1962 — Vostok traverse – led by Australian National Antarctic Research Expeditions (ANARE)
- 1962–1964 — 8th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Mikhail Somov
- 1963–1965 — 9th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Mikhail Somov and Pavel Senko
- 1964-1965 — South Pole—Queen Maud Land Traverse I
- 1964–1966 — 10th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by M.Ostrekin, I.Petrov
- 1965-1966 — South Pole—Queen Maud Land Traverse II
- 1965–1967 — 11th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by D.Maksutov, Leonid Dubrovin
- 1965–1965 — Operación 90 – Terrestrial Argentine Expedition to the South Pole Led by Coronel D. Jorge Leal.
- 1966–1968 — 12th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Pavel Senko and Vladislav Gerbovich
- 1966–1967 — New Zealand Antarctic Research Programme Mariner Glacier Northern Party Expedition — led by John E S Lawrence
- 1967–1968 — South Pole—Queen Maud Land Traverse III
- 1967–1969 — 13th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Aleksei Treshnikov
- 1968–1970 — 14th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by D.Maksutov, Ernst Krenkel
- 1969–1970 — New Zealand Geological Survey Antarctic Expedition
- 1969–1971 — 15th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Pavel Senko and Vladislav Gerbovich
- 1970–1972 — 16th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by I.Petrov and Yury Tarbeyev
- 1971–1973 — 17th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Yevgeny Korotkevich, V. Averyanov
- 1972–1974 — 18th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Pavel Senko
- 1973–1975 — 19th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by D.Maksutov, V. Ignatov
- 1974–1976 — 20th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by V.Serdyukov, N. Kornilov
- 1975–1977 — 21st Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by O.Sedov, G. Bardin
- 1976–1978 — 22nd Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by N.Tyabin, Leonid Dubrovin
- 1977–1979 — 23rd Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by V.Serdyukov, O. Sedov
- 1978–1980 — 24th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by A.Artemyev, O. Sedov
- 1979 — Air New Zealand Flight 901 – airplane crash
- 1979–1980 — 25th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by N.Kornilov, N. Tyabin
- 1980–1981 — Transglobe Expedition – led by Ranulph Fiennes
- 1980–1982 — 26th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by V.Serdyukov, V. Shamontyev
- 1981–1983 — 27th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by D.Maksutov, R. Galkin
- 1981-1982 — First Indian Expedition to Antarctica – led by Dr. Sayed Zahoor Qasim
- 1982 — Falkland Islands War
- 1982–1983 — First Brazilian Expedition to Antarctica –
- 1982–1983 — Second Indian Expedition to Antarctica – led by V. K. Raina
- 1982–1984 — 28th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by N.Kornilov, A. Artemyev
- 1983–1985 — 29th Soviet Antarctic Expedition – led by N.Tyabin, L. Bulatov
- 1983–1985 — Third Indian Expedition to Antarctica
- 1984–1987 — In the Footsteps of Scott – led by Robert Swan
- 1984–1985 — 1st Uruguayan Antarctic Expedition – Antarkos I Led by Lt. Col. Omar Porciúncula
- 1984–1986 — 30th Soviet Antarctic Expedition – led by D.Maksutov, R. Galkin
- 1985–1987 — 31st Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by N. Tyabin, V. Dubovtsev
- 1986–1988 — 32nd Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by V.Klokov, V.Vovk
- 1987 — Iceberg B-9 calves and carries away Little Americas I – III
- 1987–1989 — 33rd Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by N.A.Kornilov, Yu.A.Khabarov
- 1987–1988 — First Bulgarian Antarctic Expedition — St. Kliment Ohridski Base established
- 1988–1990 — 34th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by S.M.Pryamikov, L.V.Bulatov
- 1989–1990 — Antarctic crossing on foot by Reinhold Messner and Arved Fuchs.^{[citation needed]}
- 1989–1990 — 1990 International Trans-Antarctica Expedition — led by American Will Steger and Frenchman Jean-Louis Étienne, first un-mechanized crossing
- 1989–1991 — 35th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by V.M.Piguzov
- 1990 — 1st North Korean Antarctic Expedition^[6]
- 1990–1991 — 2nd North Korean Antarctic Expedition^[6]
- 1991–1992 — 36th Soviet Antarctic Expedition — led by Lev Savatyugin
- 1992–1993 — British Polar Plod — led by Ranulph Fiennes with Mike Stroud (physician), first unassisted expedition crossing the continent by ski, (2,173 km in 95 days)
- 1992–1993 — Erling Kagge, first unassisted, and first solo expedition to the South Pole by ski, (1,310 km in 53 days)
- 1992–1993 — Antarctic Environmental Research Expedition — led by Kenji Yoshikawa
- 1994 — Liv Arnesen, first unassisted woman to the South Pole by ski, (1,200 km in 50 days)
- 1995 — “A Pole at the Poles” – Marek Kamiński solo expedition to the South Pole from Berkner Island (1,400 km in 53 days);
- 1995-1996 – Bernard Voyer and Thierry Pétry unassisted expedition to the South Pole by ski
- 1996 — Lake Vostok discovered
- 1996/97 — “Solo TransAntarctica” – Marek Kamiński attempted solo crossing of Antarctica (1,450 km);
21st century
- 2000-2001- Norwegian Liv Arnesen and the American Ann Bancroft crossed Antarctica on ski-sail from Blue 1 Runaway November 13th reaching after 94 days of expedition McMurdo, passing through the South Pole. ^[7]
- 2001/2 – First and longest sea kayak expedition by New Zealanders Graham Charles, Marcus Waters and Mark Jones paddle unsupported from Hope Bay to Adelaide Island in 35 days.
- 2004 — Scot100 First ever Scottish Expedition to South Pole ^[8] began in October 2004 – a century after a historic expedition led by William Speirs Bruce, Edinburgh’s “unknown” explorer, who Craig Mathieson views as “truly the greatest polar explorer of all time”.
- 2004 — Together to the Pole – a Polish four-man expedition led by Marek Kamiński, with Jan Mela (a teenage double amputee, who in the same year reached also the North Pole)
- 2004–2005 — Chilean South Pole Expedition.
- 2004–2005 — Tangra 2004/05 created Camp Academia.
- 2005 — Ice Challenger Expedition travelled to the South Pole in a six-wheeled vehicle.^[9]
- 2005–2006 — Spanish Trans-Antarctic Expedition, led by Ramon Larramendi, reached the Southern Pole of Inaccessibility using kite-sleds.^[10]
- 2006 Hannah McKeand sets coast-to-pole solo/unsupported record of 39 days, 9 hours and 33 minutes^[11]
- 2006-2007 — Jenny and Ray Jardine 57-day ski trek to South Pole ^[12]
- 2007 — Pat Falvey leads an Irish team to reach the South Pole, skiing 1140 km only weeks after completing an unsupported Ski traverse of the Greenland Ice Cap in August 2007 in honour of Irish Polar Explorers such as Shakelton and Tom Crean. Clare O’Leary becomes the first Irish female to reach the South Pole.
- 2007–2008 — Norwegian-U.S. Scientific Traverse of East Antarctica.^[13]
- 2007–2008 — British Army Antarctic Expedition 2007–2008 ^[14]
- 2008 — Todd Carmichael sets coast-to-pole solo/unsupported record of 39 days, 7 hours and 49 minutes^[15]
- 2008 — First Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
- 2008–2009 — Impossible 2 Possible (i2P) unsupported South Pole quest by Ray Zahab, Kevin Vallely and Richard Weber.^[16]
- 2009 — Azerbaijan Scientific Expedition
- 2009 — Kaspersky Commonwealth Antarctic Expedition, largest and most international group of women to ski to South Pole.
- 2009 — Second Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
- 2009−2010 — Unsupported/Unassisted Antarctica Ski Traverse from Berkner Island to South Pole to Ross Sea by Cecilie Skog and Ryan Waters.
- 2010 — Moon Regan Transantarctic Crossing, first wheeled transantarctic crossing and first bio-fuelled vehicle to travel to the South Pole.^[17]
- 2010 — Third Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
- 2011 — Fourth Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
- 2011−2012 — From Novolazarevskaya to Pole of Inaccessibility to South Pole to Hercules inlet by Sebastian Copeland and Eric McNair Landry by kites and skis.^[18]
- 2011−2012 — British Services Antarctic Expedition 2012^[19]
- 2011-2012 – Expedition by Ramon Hernando de Larramendi, by Inuit WindSled.^[20]
- 2012 — Felicity Aston becomes the first person to ski alone across Antarctica using only personal muscle power, as well as the first woman to cross Antarctica alone.^[21]^[22] Her journey began on 25 November 2011, at the Leverett Glacier, and continued for 59 days and a distance of 1,084 miles (1,744 kilometers).^[23]
- 2012 — Fifth Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
- 2012−2013 — Aaron Linsdau becomes the second American to ski solo from the Hercules Inlet to the South Pole. His original plan was to make a round trip but through a series of problems, like all other expeditions this year, was unable to make the return journey.^[24]
- 2012 — Eric Larsen attempts a bicycle ride from coast to South Pole. Completes a quarter of the distance.
- 2012 — Grant Korgan becomes the first person with a spinal cord injury to literally “push” himself to the geographic South Pole!^[25]^[26]^[27]^[28]^[29]
- 2012−2013 — Shackleton’s centenary re-enactment expedition of the journey of the James Caird aboard the replica Alexandra Shackleton. Six British and Australian Explorers completed the “double journey” on 10 February 2013 after the 800-mile journey from Elephant Island to South Georgia and the mountain crossing.^[30]
- 2013 — Sixth Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
- 2013–2014 — Ben Saunders and Tarka L’Herpiniere make the first ever completion of the Terra Nova Expedition first taken by Robert Falcon Scott in January 1912. Their 1,801-mile, 105-day return journey to the South Pole is the longest ever polar journey on foot.^[31]
- 2013 — Parker Liautaud and Douglas Stoup attempt in December 2013 the Willis Resilience Expedition ^[32] to set a “coast to Pole” speed record ^[33] by reaching the geographical South Pole on skis in the fastest miles per hour ever recorded from an interior of continent start while being followed by a support vehicle.
- 2013 — Antony Jinman will walk to the South Pole solo for the 2013 ETE Teachers South Pole Mission, during which he will be in daily contact with schoolchildren from across the United Kingdom and will make films using the world’s first drone flights at the South Pole.
- 2013 — Maria Leijerstam completes the first tricycle ride from coast to South Pole.
- 2013−14 — Lewis Clarke (aged 16 years and 61 days) guided by Carl Alvey (aged 30) became the youngest person to trek from the Antarctic coast at Hercules Inlet to the South Pole. His expedition was in support of the Prince’s Trust and his achievement is recognised by Guinness World Records.
- 2013−14 — Daniel P. Burton completes the first bicycle ride from coast to the South Pole.
- 2013−14 — Chris Turney led an expedition, entitled “Spirit of Mawson“, aimed at highlighting the decline in sea ice due to climate change. The expedition was abandoned when its Russian ship became stuck in unusually large amounts of sea ice.
- 2013 — In December 2013 the Expeditions 7 Team led by Scott Brady made a successful east-to-west crossing in four-wheel drive vehicles from Novolazarevskaya to the Ross Ice Shelf via the Scott-Amundsen South Pole Station. Expeditions 7’s logistic plan included providing assistance to the Walking With The Wounded expedition, which was required at latitude 88°S. From the Ross Ice Shelf the Expeditions 7 team returned to Novolazarevskaya via the same route.
- 2015−16 — Henry Worsley died while attempting to complete the first solo and unaided crossing of the Antarctic.^[34]
- 2016−17 — Spear17, a six-man team from the British Army Reserves successfully completed a full traverse of Antarctica. They set off on 16 November from Hercules Inlet, arrived at the South Pole on Christmas Day, and completed a full traverse reaching Ross Ice Shelf on 20 January 2017. The aim of the expedition was to raise the profile of the army reservists, and to honour the memory of fellow explorer Henry Worsley. The team was led by Lou Rudd ^[35]
- 2016−17 — February 7 Mike Horn completes first ever solo, unsupported north-to-south traverse of Antarctica from the Princess Astrid Coast (lat -70.1015 lon 9.8249) to the Dumont D’urville Station (lat -66.6833 lon 139.9167) via the South Pole. He arrived at the pole on February 7, 2017. A total distance of 5100 km was covered utilizing kites and skis in 57 days.
May 24, 2018 at 9:48 pm#829363
Proclaimer
Participant
The Solar Eclipse does not prove a Flat Earth
Argument made by Flat Earthers
The first argument is if the Earth is rotating from west to east, the shadow should pass across Earth’s surface from East to West, just as the sun moves across the sky. At face value, this would seem odd to many people. Here’s a video of a flat Earther explaining why he thinks this proves the Earth is flat.
However, it’s important to understand the speed at which the Earth and moon travel. According to NASA, the moon travels to the east as it orbits Earth at approximately 3,400 km per hour. This is compared to the Earth rotating to the east at 1,670 km per hour at the equator. This would mean the moon’s shadow will move from west to east at 1,730 km per hour at the equator.
As an analogy, imagine car B passing car A on the highway. Car A typically finds objects first pass by the car from the front hood and travel toward the back bumper. However, in the case of car B which is passing car A, car B would travel from the back bumper to the front hood.
Source:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/08/22/flat-earthers-declare-solar-eclipse-just-proved-earth-flat/
May 24, 2018 at 9:55 pm#829364
Proclaimer
Participant
The shadow of the moon
Argument made by Flat Earthers
The shadow the moon casts on the Earth has to be bigger than the moon itself. A few flat Earthers tested their hypothesis by turning on a flash light and shining it at a quarter against the wall. They found that if they moved the quarter closer or farther from the wall the shadow was always bigger than the quarter itself.
The image below is a comparison of what the flat Earthers were expecting to see, a massive shadow significantly larger than the moon itself.
However, there is one key issue with these experiments. The Sun projects light in all directions and is many many times larger than the moon. Hence, the experiment would be better served not by a point source of light such as a candle or flashlight, but with a large area of diffuse of light and one that is significantly far from the quarter and wall.
Here you can see an accurate demonstration of how the Sun casts the moon’s shadow on Earth. Unfortunately for flat Earthers, this wasn’t their big breakthrough in discrediting NASA, the media, and the rest of the world that the Earth is flat. However, the group has never been keen on facts or evidence and maintains a significant distrust of the rest of the world. Maybe the next solar eclipse on April 8, 2024, will be their coup de grâce on this whole round Earth nonsense.
Source: Trevor Nace is a PhD geologist, founder of Science Trends, Forbes contributor, and explorer. Follow his journey @trevornace.
May 25, 2018 at 12:37 am#829367
Anthony
Participant
Hi Lighten up .Good job. Thank you
so-called “solid firmament” is not solid. Read on:
Mike said
Anthony said: Depending on the context, the word can refer to that which is immediately above us, where flying birds, clouds, and rain are.
Mike responded: Yes, that is the first heaven – which is never referred to by raqia, since it is not solid.
you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate! Thank you Jesus for making the raqia!! God bless lghtenup In Him Anthony

May 25, 2018 at 6:59 am#829371
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Anthony….your kicking a dead horse, MIKE will not admit he is wrong, he is not truly looking for truth, because he believes he already has it. So letting go of his false asumptions is hard for him, even when it comes to scriptures he holds onto those false teachings of his, as do some others here.
if you really want to be enlightened with something that counts, go to JODI”S posts in truth or tridition, you will be greately edified, at how accurate she is and the length she went to to prove her points. Her knowledge of scriptures i have found unsurpassed here.
T8 go and read and think about it also. Lets not forget to pray for one another aways.” The prayers of a rightious man avails much.
Peace and love to you all and yours. …….gene
May 25, 2018 at 8:34 am#829375
NickHassan
Participant
Hi LU and Anthony,
Since there is no solid dome and birds fly and stars are seen in the firmament Mike can no longer ascribe any scriptural basis for his odd theories about earth. They have to stand alone reliant on his own personal observations and interpretations.

May 25, 2018 at 12:11 pm#829386
Lightenup
Participant
Thanks Anthony and t8, I hope that helps Mike and Dig4truth.
May 25, 2018 at 12:47 pm#829390
mikeboll64
Blocked
Kathi… Anthony said: Depending on the context, the word can refer to that which is immediately above us, where flying birds, clouds, and rain are
Mike responded:
Yes, that is the first heaven – which is never referred to by raqia, since it is not solid.
Genesis 1:20
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”
That word for “expanse” is definitely raqia…the birds fly in the raqia. That should end this thread, Mike. Your solid heaven has just been debunked.
Now we can move on. Mike you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate! Thank you Jesus for making the raqia!!

T8: Nice work.

Anthony: Hi Lighten up .Good job. Thank you
so-called “solid firmament” is not solid.

Gene: Anthony….your kicking a dead horse, MIKE will not admit he is wrong, he is not truly looking for truth, because he believes he already has it. So letting go of his false asumptions is hard for him…

Nick: Hi LU and Anthony,
Since there is no solid dome and birds fly and stars are seen in the firmament Mike can no longer ascribe any scriptural basis for his odd theories about earth. They have to stand alone reliant on his own personal observations and interpretations.

It took me 3 minutes to find these commentaries on biblehub.com…
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
This rendering scarcely reproduces the sense of the Hebrew words, which literally mean “in the face of,” or “over against, the firmament of heaven.” The idea is that winged things are to fly “above” the earth, and “in front of” the vault of heaven. The R.V. margin, on the face of the expanse of the heaven, is cumbrous and obscure. The meaning seems to be that the flight of winged things shall be in mid air, “in front,” as it were, of the solid “firmament of heaven,” which was not remote. The winged creatures would continually be visible against the sky.
Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers
In the open firmament…Literally, upon the face of the expanse of heaven>—that is, in front of it, upon the lower surface of the atmosphere near to the earth.
Barnes’ Notes on the Bible
The face of the expanse…” The expanse is here proved to be aerial or spatial; not solid, as the fowl can fly on it.
Pulpit Commentary
Above the earth in the open firmament of heaven… Not above the firmament like the clouds (Von Bohlen, Baumgarten), but in the concave vault (Tuch, Delitzsch), or before the surface of the expanse (Kalisch).
Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
The Fifth Day. – “God said: Let the waters swarm with swarms, with living beings, and let birds fly above the earth in the face (the front, i.e., the side turned towards the earth) of the firmament.”
You’ll see that not all the commentators think the firmament is solid, but all of them realize that the literal Hebrew phrase is “in/against/across/upon the face of the firmament”… with the overall meaning of “in front of the firmament”. You can also find Bible dictionaries like this one…
Easton’s Bible Dictionary
from the Vulgate firmamentum, which is used as the translation of the Hebrew raki’a. This word means simply “expansion.” It denotes the space or expanse like an arch appearing immediately above us. They who rendered raki’a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body. The language of Scripture is not scientific but popular, and hence we read of the sun rising and setting, and also here the use of this particular word. It is plain that it was used to denote solidity as well as expansion. It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below (Gen 1:7). The raki’a supported the upper reservoir (Psa 148:4). It was the support also of the heavenly bodies (Gen 1:14), and is spoken of as having “windows” and “doors” (Gen 7:11; Isa 24:18; Mal 3:10) through which the rain and snow might descend.
There are even a few Bibles that translate it correctly…
Young’s Literal Translation
And God saith, ‘Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.’
Jubilee Bible 2000
And God said, Let the waters bring forth great quantities of creatures with living souls and fowl that may fly above the earth upon the face of the firmament of the heavens.
The AKJV has it in the marginal notes. I also read an interesting article today from BioLogos called “The Firmament of Genesis 1 is Solid, But That’s Not the Point”…
https://biologos.org/blogs/archive/the-firmament-of-genesis-1-is-solid-but-thats-not-the-point
T8 may remember me mentioning that organization when I was talking to him about theistic evolutionists. This group is the forerunner in that category, and its members believe in the big bang 13 billion years ago, earth forming by chance 4.5 billion years ago, and random evolution being the cause for all living things except for man – who was created specially by God after the earth had 4 billion years to become ready for man by naturalistic processes. The group is headed by Hugh Ross, an astrophysicist who I used to listen to in podcast form, until I finally couldn’t take any more of him blatantly twisting God’s written word to make scripture conform to the big bang/deep time/abiogenesis/common descent evolution story told by men of science so-called, who are wise in their own eyes. Anyway, the point is that these guys are zealous proponents of heliocentric cosmogony and cosmology, and as far from a solid dome/stationary earth model as anyone can be. But even these folks understand the meaning of raqia. Here are a few snippets from the article…
Biblical scholars understand the raqia to be a solid dome-like structure. It separates the water into two parts, so that there is water above the raqia and water below it (v. 7)… Ancient Israelites and others in that part of the world assumed the world was flat…
Biblical scholars agree on this understanding of raqia. For some Christians, however, this is troubling. How can the Bible, which is the inspired, revealed word of God, contain such an inaccurate piece of ancient nonsense? Hence, some invest a lot of time and energy to show that the raqia is not solid but more like the atmosphere. Often, the word “expanse” is the preferred translation because it does not necessarily imply something solid.
Arguing for a non-solid raqia in Genesis is extremely problematic, for two reasons. First, the biblical and extrabiblical data indicate that raqia means a solid structure of some sort…
Let me summarize some of the general arguments for why raqia is understood by contemporary biblical scholars as a solid structure…
1. The other cosmologies from the ancient world depict some solid structure in the sky. The most natural explanation of the raqia is that it also reflects this understanding. There is no indication that Genesis is a novel description of the sky;
2. Virtually every description of raqia from antiquity to the Renaissance depicts it as solid. The non-solid interpretation of raqia is a novelty;
3. According to the flood story in Gen 7:11 and 8:2, the waters above were held back only to be released through the “floodgates of the heavens” (literally, “lattice windows”);
4. Other Old Testament passages are consistent with the raqia being solid (Ezekiel1:22; Job 37:18; Psalm 148:4);
5. According to Gen 1:20, the birds fly in front of the raqia (in the air), not in the raqia;
6. The noun raqia is derived form the verb that means to beat out or stamp out, as in hammering metal into thin plates (Exodus 39:3). This suggests that the noun form is likewise related to something solid…
The solid nature of the raqia is well established. It is not the result of an anti-Christian conspiracy to find errors in the Bible, but the “solid” result of scholars doing their job…
The meaning of raqia is likewise a description not only of what the Israelites saw but also of what they actually believed to be true. They were in good company, for their understanding of what was “up there” was in harmony with what ancient peoples believed in general. God spoke to the ancient Israelites in a way they would readily understand.
The arguments for a non-solid raqia can only gain traction by swimming against the strong current of what we know of the ancient world. But the problem is not just the arguments themselves. Rather, it is the very fact that the arguments are made in the first place…
May 25, 2018 at 1:06 pm#829391
mikeboll64
Blocked
Kathi: Thanks Anthony and t8, I hope that helps Mike and Dig4truth.
Mike and Dig4truth hope that my post helps you guys. The raqia is solid.
May 25, 2018 at 1:10 pm#829392
mikeboll64
Blocked
T8, do you know how frustrating it is to spend a bunch of time on a post, only for it to display like this…

I had to go back and manually remove every “span” the all the other crap. It’s done that a few times on me. Is it something I’m doing wrong?

May 25, 2018 at 1:42 pm#829394
mikeboll64
Blocked
Kathi, I forgot to make a point of this comment in the Easton dictionary…
The language of Scripture is not scientific but popular…
Do you see what’s happened here? The scriptures clearly describe one thing, but what they describe is “not scientific”, and so the description has to be changed so it fits in with the “science so-called” of “men who are wise in their own eyes”. Let this quote sink in…
“People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations. For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations. You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that.”
- George Ellis, Scientific American, “Thinking Globally, Acting Universally”, October 1995
That was said in 1995… 25 years after we supposedly landed men on the moon. This is a guy who co-wrote a book with Stephen Hawking. He is a superstar of cosmology. Yet even today, he can make a model other than the heliocentric one, and it could not be disproved by observation. What does that tell you? We’ve supposedly been sending things and people into space for 60 years – all the way to Pluto and beyond – yet we still can’t prove the heliocentric model by scientific observation? I hope you think long and hard on that as you’re coming to the realization that the only reason you believe what you believe about our world comes from the testimony of astronauts who contradict each other when it comes to whether or not we can even see stars from space.

I promise you there isn’t one piece of observational data to support the nonsensical spinning ball flying through space model. On the other hand, there are so many things we can observe for ourselves that completely refute it.
May 25, 2018 at 1:45 pm#829395
mikeboll64
Blocked
Anthony: Mike did you try to read the message that I sent
I got a message the other day, but it wouldn’t open, and didn’t say who it was from.
May 25, 2018 at 1:48 pm#829396
mikeboll64
Blocked
Anthony: Galileo was a scientist who believed in the trustworthiness of the Bible…
If that was true, he would have been telling people what D4T and I are telling you guys on this thread.
May 25, 2018 at 2:19 pm#829397
mikeboll64
Blocked
Kathi: Mike,
Regarding your wet flag theory, the flag does not have a normal drying pattern if it were wet. The seams would be darker because they would be thicker and stay wetter than the thin area between the seams but that is not what the picture is showing. I suspect that the photo shopping done on pictures are likely done by flat earthers including the so called wet flag.
You can find the original on NASA’s website right now. Or many other places. Here it is on WikiCommons…
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Astronaut_Harrison_%27Jack%27_Schmitt,_American_Flag,_and_Earth_(Apollo_17_EVA-1).jpg
Right below the image, click on “Original File”, and it will open a 4 MB image that you can zoom in on and see the wet flag. Also take a look at that earth when you’re zoomed in, and let me know if it looks like a real image of the place we live. There is only fake looking clouds and water… no land.
If you want to believe the image is doctored (straight from NASA’s own website), or that the drying pattern isn’t quite to your liking, then there’s nothing I can do to change your mind. But if you take the blinders off and look at it with an open mind, you’ll agree that the flag is partially wet, and partially dry. And that simply can’t be on the moon.

Kathi: I believe that the moon and the sun can be both seen at times during the day because of the angle of the orbit of the moon, I have no problem with that.
But I wasn’t talking about the sun and the moon simply being up during the day. I was talking about these three things…
1. You could not possibly see the earth from the moon unless you were looking directly up… unlike that wet flag photo.
2. You cannot have a lunar eclipse with the sun and moon both in the sky above the earth, because the earth is supposed to be what’s causing the shadow on the moon.
3. You cannot have a FULL moon during the daytime.
Here’s a diagram from one of those flat earth debunking videos T8 posted…
Notice how the moon is between the sun and the lit half of the earth, so we couldn’t possibly have a full moon then if the sun is what lights the moon up. Even T8’s source makes it clear that we’d be seeing the dark side of the moon from the daylight part of the earth. In this one, I added some red lines to show how the sunlight would have to hit the moon to make the side facing the daylight part of the earth full and white…

Are you starting to get the picture now? I await your explanations for these three things. Or just pick one of them for now, and explain to me how it could happen.
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