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The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father

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Glory of God

The Trinity Doctrine is so preposterous that it contradicts the most basic and simple truths in scripture and causes much confusion and unnecessary division.

For example, the Holy Spirit came to Mary instead of Mary’s husband Joseph. Thus is the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus, or is the Father? Explain that one with the confusing dogma of the Trinity.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father and is not another person, nor an equal partner of a triune God.

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  • April 18, 2015 at 9:13 am#794529
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    The trinity is very hard to argue. A logos type argument only works with those whom lack knowledge. That leaves either a pathos or ethos and the later requires that the speaker is regarded as credible by the hearers. Pathos is the best way but it takes skill.

    I have not heard you try to explain how Jesus can be completely human and the same time he is completely God yet in order to justify its conflicts with Scripture. It has been tried with me but I do not find that non biblical explanation believable.

    April 18, 2015 at 4:36 pm#794572
    DavidL
    Participant

    The trinity is very hard to argue

    yes, waste of time – you need a revelation.. it’s so simple when you just trust the Word.

    April 18, 2015 at 4:37 pm#794573
    DavidL
    Participant

    this is a good 2 minute clip on the trinity..

     

    April 18, 2015 at 4:59 pm#794577
    DavidL
    Participant

    Same people talking about the trinity..7 min

    (remember that the one thing all christian cults have in common is, denying the trinity..!!)

     

     

    April 18, 2015 at 5:40 pm#794580
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi David

    God told Moses his name in verse 15.

    “And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your
    fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?” (Ex 3:13)

    “And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
    JEHOVAH the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,
    hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.” (Ex 3:15)

    What is God’s name?

    וַיֹּאמֶר עוֹד אֱלֹהִים אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, כֹּה-תֹאמַר אֶל-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵי אֲבֹתֵיכֶם אֱלֹהֵי אַבְרָהָם אֱלֹהֵי יִצְחָק וֵאלֹהֵי יַעֲקֹב, שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם; זֶה-שְּׁמִי לְעֹלָם, וְזֶה זִכְרִי לְדֹר דֹּר. (Exodus 3:15)

    You can see for yourself David L that God’s name יְהוָה was given to Moses as the answer to Moses’ question.

    ___________
    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
    ”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD

    April 18, 2015 at 10:23 pm#794589
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    God has never revealed any trinity.

    So how did you reach this bizarre conclusion?

    April 18, 2015 at 10:25 pm#794590
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Your argument continues with the Lord God of creation.

    Why do you want us involved?

    April 19, 2015 at 4:47 am#794613
    kerwin
    Participant

    David L,

    So according to you a revelation is required because the Trinity is not in Scripture. That revelation is of the devil for no man of God would even imply that God be tempted by evil under any circumstances.

    You choose to use the word “revelation” to justify your lack of belief in the words of God as they are written down in Scripture.

    April 19, 2015 at 5:36 am#794614
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Was Jesus tempted by evil? not according to John’s gospel-for the ruler of the world had nothing in him.And what is the definition of being tempted according to the scripture I take it you refer to,that is James 1:14 But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed.But James says nothing about Christ being tempted.Do you really think our saviour Jesus was drawn away by lust and enticed? Read the accounts of the temptations in Matt and Luke again to see if that’s so.He seems to have no lust and isn’t enticed from what I read. And is it sin to be tempted anyway? If one has a sinful inclination then they can be tempted.

     

    April 19, 2015 at 6:15 am#794615
    kerwin
    Participant

    AndrewAd,

    John was teaching us what the other writers of the New Testament were teaching us at well. His audience was Hellenized Jews, just as Philo of Alexander’s was and we have evidence that many had trouble understanding the latter’s writing even in that age. The book of Hebrews was written to another audience and teaches us Jesus is the high priest that was tempted even as we are. We are tempted by evil, God cannot be. Matthew and Luke both speak of the time Jesus was tempted by the evil one in the desert. It is about believing what is written in Scripture because so many untruths are spread among mankind.

    April 19, 2015 at 6:56 am#794617
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Kerwin,

    Thanks for bringing up Hebrews because I did forget about the verse that says Jesus was tempted in all ways like us.That means he must have had sinful inclinations like us too.But Hebrews also teaches he is God which in a way is more comforting since he’s a god we can relate to in a human way.But the OT God seems quite human in many instances too,but I don’t relate as well to him.

    April 19, 2015 at 7:07 am#794618
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    No Hebrews does not teach us he is the Father God.

    April 19, 2015 at 7:23 am#794622
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    I didn’t say Father but since you bring up the subject in Hebrews it makes me think of a Christian motorcycle club in my area called the Sons of Christ.One of my first thoughts when I saw these jackets was these people aren’t too bright theologically since we are brothers of Christ not sons,but then the verse from Hebrews came to mind which says”I and the children which God has given me”. The author of Hebrews does refer that OT quote as applying to Christ so in a sense we can be sons or daughters of Christ.Women wear these jackets too,which say Sons of Christ.

    April 19, 2015 at 7:39 am#794624
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    Yes he called the apostles CHILDREN when he shared a meal with them when they had been fishing after he was raised too.

    April 19, 2015 at 8:47 am#794629
    DavidL
    Participant

    kerwin

    So according to you a revelation is required because the Trinity is not in Scripture. That revelation is of the devil for no man of God would even imply that God be tempted by evil under any circumstances.

    You choose to use the word “revelation” to justify your lack of belief in the words of God as they are written down in Scripture.

    Scripture speaks of the Son as God, the Spirit as God, and the Father as God…

    Yes, to correctly understand this you must have the Light that comes from God (Holy Spirit) – a revelation of the words of God as they are written down in Scripture – otherwise you end up in a bog of carnal interpretations and erroneous cult teachings, that this site is sadly becoming renown for..

    To clarify this you should only need to look back at your own personal experience of when you became a Christian – what was it that first made you realize the truth of Jesus Christ – was it simply just a logical conclusion you reached..? Or was it like Peter, and you saw for yourself the reality of Christ…?

    April 19, 2015 at 9:00 am#794630
    kerwin
    Participant

    AndrewAD,

    James goes further than merely temptation. Did Jesus have the desire of the flesh as we do? The answer is yes as that is where temptation of all human beings comes from. That is why he is able to sympathize with his brethren. (Hebrews 4:15) Jesus did live by the flesh but instead he lived by the Spirit from first to last that he be first of many brothers. (similar to Romans 8:29)

    April 19, 2015 at 9:13 am#794632
    kerwin
    Participant

    David L,

    Scripture speaks of the Son as God, the Spirit as God, and the Father as God…

    It also tells you that all believers become the sons of God when they receive the Spirit of God. There is no reason to define the title different when it is applied to Jesus the promised Son of David-David being a human being. Scripture clears up the one and only issue as Isaac is called the one and only son of Abraham despite the fact that he had a brother whose name was Ismael. The Koine Greek language only has one case so the capitalization of both the Son of Man and the Son of God was an arbitrary decision by translators. I do not disagree with them as Jesus is the chief son of humanity, as of the flesh, and the chief son of God, as of the Spirit.

    God has a Spirit just as human beings do. Paul used the comparison in 1 Corinthians 2:11. God’s is unique in that he is able share it with us and he uses it as we use our legs, arms, and the like.

    April 19, 2015 at 9:18 am#794633
    kerwin
    Participant

    David,

    I chose to believe that when Jesus promises those whom deeply desire to stop sinning that they will truly stop sinning under the new covenant. Those that love darkness are deeply afraid of that promise and so run from it rather than either have to live with their coming doom or repent and come out into the light.

    April 19, 2015 at 9:24 am#794634
    DavidL
    Participant

    It also tells you that all believers become the sons of God when they receive the Spirit of God. There is no reason to define the title different when it is applied to Jesus the promised Son of David-David being a human being.

    the difference is – we are sons by adoption…

    “He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.” – Ephesians 1:5

    Jesus is Son by birth..

    we are sons by adoption..

    April 19, 2015 at 10:32 am#794638
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    So Mary is The Mother of God and Jehovah is the Father of God?

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