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The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father

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Glory of God

The Trinity Doctrine is so preposterous that it contradicts the most basic and simple truths in scripture and causes much confusion and unnecessary division.

For example, the Holy Spirit came to Mary instead of Mary’s husband Joseph. Thus is the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus, or is the Father? Explain that one with the confusing dogma of the Trinity.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father and is not another person, nor an equal partner of a triune God.

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  • April 7, 2015 at 3:36 pm#793120
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    Not made one by ANOTHER Spirit.

    The Holy Spirit is one.

     

    Even in the Holy Spirit there are many manifestations-prophecy, healing , teaching, a word of knowledge or wisdom, discernment etc. We should not be amazed by the complexity of the one Spirit.

     

    April 7, 2015 at 3:55 pm#793123
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    The enumeration and unity of spirits is not what makes the theology of trinitarianism, it is essentially the reasoning that God is more than one spirit that makes it incorrect. All the angels act according to God’s will and they are all spirits but God is a Sovereign Spirit and there in None else like Him. Jesus is not God and God’s spirit belongs to Him so the trinity teaching’s main error usually starts and stops with the idea that Jesus is God or the equivalent of God when neither is true.

    The entire misunderstanding of what the term “son of God” means causes much of the confusion, to understand the term one has to turn to Judaism, Christianity’s parent religion because the term comes from that religion and it was never with the sense of literalness in-fact any pious or rightous person might be called “son of God” angels were called “son of God” as well, most people that only focus on the NT might have come across the scripture that says:

    Hebrews 1:5
    For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    this would give the impression that the angels have never been referred to as “Sons of God” but the OT says differently

    Job 1:6
    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

    So either God did tell the angels they were His sons or the term is generally used in various ways when relating to beings that are in agreement with God

    April 7, 2015 at 4:50 pm#793130
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    This is My Son. Today I have begotten thee.

     

    Thank you for being so overt in your rejection of the Son of God and your wish to turn scripture against itself.

    and to try and make God a liar. It will rebound on you.

    You have your own god .

    April 7, 2015 at 5:00 pm#793131
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Dear Nick

    This is My Son. Today I have begotten thee.

    Psalm 2:7
    I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    at minimum this psalm was written at least 500 years before Jesus, do you think the people believed that this was addressed to Jesus 500 to 1500 years before his birth?

    April 7, 2015 at 5:13 pm#793134
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Do you not understand prophecy?

    Not surprising really.

    April 7, 2015 at 5:23 pm#793136
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    1Jn5 10f

    The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself,

    The one who does not believe God has made Him a liar

    because he has not believed the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

    And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

    He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son does not have the life.”

     

    You have rejected the life for yourself

    April 7, 2015 at 5:23 pm#793137
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    I asked you what did the people at the time think of this? who did they believe it was referring to at that time?

    April 7, 2015 at 5:30 pm#793139
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    1Jn5 10f

    The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself,

    The one who does not believe God has made Him a liar

    because he has not believed the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

    And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

    He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son does not have the life.”

    You have rejected the life for yourself

    1 John 5 King James Version (KJV)

    5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    I was wondering do you keep the commandments of God, for instance do you eat pork, do you keep the sabbath (friday sunset to saturday sunset)? Do you ascribe partners to God?

    April 7, 2015 at 5:32 pm#793140
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Every Muslim believes that Jesus is The Christ therefore according to biblical scripture every Muslim is born of God, right?

    April 7, 2015 at 5:59 pm#793144
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    So they want to kill him?

    There is no harmony in your human religion

    April 7, 2015 at 6:01 pm#793145
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    The OT Law applied to the Jews.

    The commands of Jesus from His God are written and not grievous

    April 7, 2015 at 6:43 pm#793151
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Prophecy is eternal.

     

    The fulfillment may be partial as were the ones Peter chose in Acts 2.17f including Ps 2 in v 34.

    They will all find  total completion in the timeframe of God.

     

    But natural men prefer their own wisdom to that of God.

    And they appoint their own leaders and write their own scriptures.

    April 7, 2015 at 7:37 pm#793152
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Rom 3.4

    “..Let God be found true though every man be found a liar..”

    You find fault with God and His Son, His prophets and His scriptures.

    It is because you serve another god

    April 8, 2015 at 5:03 am#793177
    DavidL
    Participant

    t8

    “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (notice – “the only true God AND Jesus Christ”…two that are one.)

    lol DavidL. I see your reasoning tacks on the end the words, “the two are one” when it doesn’t say that.

    This is your bias kicking in.

    no reasoning – just comparing Scripture with Scripture…. and pointing out how the verses you use actually confirm the very thing you are trying to deny… (the sad folly of relying on your own reasoning for spiritual enlightenment..!!)

     

    Jesus said, “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

    Jesus said, “If you have seen Me you have seen the Father.”

    Jesus said, “I and the Father are One.”

     

    Maybe your sponge is a little too full of your own doctrine to discern the reality of Jesus Christ…?

    April 8, 2015 at 6:43 am#793178
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Yes.

    Have you heard the voices of the Father and of the Word in the mouth of Jesus yet?

    April 8, 2015 at 7:19 am#793186
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    You seem to be promoting a binity now.

    This is because you do not know life in the Spirit.

    April 8, 2015 at 7:20 am#793187
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Prophecies can remain closed to understanding for centuries till they are fulfilled.

    It is the way of God if not man.

    April 8, 2015 at 7:42 am#793190
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    Jesus said, “If you have seen Me you have seen the Father.”

    That is because Jesus lives by the Spirit of God and so his actions are God’s actions. He and God are part of the unity of the Spirit. If you are to meet a fully mature Christian then you will see Jesus because you see them. If you see a man that is living according to their soulish nature then you will see the Devil. That is why Jesus called Peter a devil, when Peter looked at things from the soulish point of view and not from a Spiritual one.

    April 8, 2015 at 7:45 am#793192
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Perhaps Jesus was not talking to Peter but what was driving him to oppose the ways of God.

    April 8, 2015 at 7:54 am#793197
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi Nick

    Hi BD,

    Rom 3.4

    “..Let God be found true though every man be found a liar..”

    You find fault with God and His Son, His prophets and His scriptures.

    It is because you serve another god

    The only problem with what you wrote is that the Jews whom you accept as having the same God finds fault with the entire NT and Jesus as Messiah, they say he was a false Messiah yet Islam says He is the Messiah. So Islam declares that Jesus is Christ and you say they serve another God and Judaism outright denies Christ in EVERY way and you say they serve the same God as you. Can you explain how that works?

    Did you know if Jews go to a land in which there are no synagogues they will go into a Mosque for prayer but NO JEW will step foot in a Church for prayer, why is that? read the following:

    http://www.quora.com/Why-are-Jews-prohibited-by-rabbinic-law-from-entering-churches-Why-are-Jews-allowed-to-enter-mosques

    Jews are allowed to enter mosques because Rambam (Maimonides) who lived in Muslim controlled countries including Egypt made a determination that Muslims and Jews believe in the same God. Jews are forbidden from walking into a bais avodah zorah, or house of idol worship. A mosque is certainly not a house of idol worship. Statues are not allowed in mosques.

    There was no similar scholar who made such a determination about Christianity and Christian Churches. In the 12th century when Rambam lived, all churches famously had statutes that Christians bowed down to. There were no modern Christians like Evangelicals or even any Protestants yet. Statues are abhorrent to Jews. Further, Christianity itself has a questionable status. While it’s not true idol worship according to anybody, there are aspects of it that are “idol worship like”. The idea of the Trinity is difficult to categorize. Also, when we had rabbis of the caliber of the Rambam, the Catholic Church was busy antagonizing Jews. There was no opportunity to have a real dialogue with them. As a result, many Torah scholars saw Christians no differently than their idol-worshiping Roman predecessors. While they knew there was a monotheistic belief in there somewhere, it was mixed in with practices that were quite foreign. The idea of bowing down to a man nailed to a cross has the taste of idol worship.

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