Eze 47:12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.”
Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb Rev 22:2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Rev 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Rev 21:23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. Rev 21:24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. Rev 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. Rev 21:26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Rev 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Eze 39:25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will now bring Jacob back from captivity and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. Eze 39:26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. Eze 39:27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations. Eze 39:28 Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. Eze 39:29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD.”
Hos 2:4 I will not show my love to her children, because they are the children of adultery. Hos 2:5 Their mother has been unfaithful and has conceived them in disgrace. She said, ‘I will go after my lovers, who give me my food and my water, my wool and my linen, my oil and my drink.’ Hos 2:6 Therefore I will block her path with thornbushes; I will wall her in so that she cannot find her way. Hos 2:7 She will chase after her lovers but not catch them; she will look for them but not find them. Then she will say, ‘I will go back to my husband as at first, for then I was better off than now.’ Hos 2:8 She has not acknowledged that I was the one who gave her the grain, the new wine and oil, who lavished on her the silver and gold— which they used for Baal.
Hos 2:9 “Therefore I will take away my grain when it ripens, and my new wine when it is ready. I will take back my wool and my linen, intended to cover her nakedness. Hos 2:10 So now I will expose her lewdness before the eyes of her lovers; no one will take her out of my hands. Hos 2:11 I will stop all her celebrations: her yearly festivals, her New Moons, her Sabbath days—all her appointed feasts. Hos 2:12 I will ruin her vines and her fig trees, which she said were her pay from her lovers; I will make them a thicket, and wild animals will devour them. Hos 2:13 I will punish her for the days she burned incense to the Baals; she decked herself with rings and jewelry, and went after her lovers, but me she forgot,” declares the LORD.
Lk 23:28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. Lk 23:29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ Lk 23:30 Then “ ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!” ’ Lk 23:31 For if men do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?”
1Pe 2:4 unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, 1Pe 2:5 ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house,to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1Pe 2:6 Because it is contained in scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame. Rev 14:1 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads. Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps: Rev 14:3 and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth. Rev 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb. Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish.
Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. Rev 5:10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.” Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. 1Pe 2:7 For you therefore that believe is the preciousness: but for such as disbelieve, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; 1Pe 2:8 and, A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence; for they stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 1Pe 2:9 But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
1Co 15:20 But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep. 1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming. 1Co 16:15 Now I beseech you, brethren (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have set themselves to minister unto the saints), Jas 1:18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Rev 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb
The Christian “church system”was primarily based off the Jewish synagogue which even Jesus attended. It’s my understanding that many early Christians still attended Jewish synagogues until their belief in Jesus as Christ could no longer be tolerated so of course they had to make their own. It’s true that many churches began in someones home but if the home can’t hold the people then it’s time for a bigger place;even some of today’s mega churches claim they began that way. And many churches whether large or small have home or cell groups where people can come together at a more personal level if they wish.
1Cor is one of Paul’s earliest letters to a church he claimed to have founded,whereas later on in the pastorals he speaks of bishops and deacons and establishes church hierarchy and more formal structure. I don’t see anything inherently deceptive or wrong about the church system itself,it’s a community of believers whether their beliefs be deceptive or not.
Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
and ;
MT 18:20 “For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
now;
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
what was it that Jesus commanded to spread and go to the nations ,to spread his words about the good news ,not to build churches and make bigger ones if you have the money ,for would this not be the world way ?
yet Jesus says ;Jn 17:7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. Jn 17:8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. Jn 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.
Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
There’s nothing in the words of Christ which you quote that go against the church system. In Jn 4 Jesus is saying one need not go to Jerusalem or Samaria to worship God,yet even Jesus went to Jerusalem to keep Jewish feasts during his life. One may worship God in spirit and truth anywhere they may be,be it at home or in a church.
Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Matthew 23:2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Jesus tells the multitudes and his disciples that they should still attend feasts and synagogue in spite of the scribes and Pharisees hypocrisy.
Matthew 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Matthew 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Matthew 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
And the book of Acts shows they still did these things,but they also evangelized and started churches.If two or more are gathered together in his name then you have a church.The gathering is the synagogue or church.
When Jesus prayed for his believers in Jn 17 he prayed for his church,that he said in Matt 16 he would build. Which of course is not a physical building but we as humans,and not disembodied spirits happen to need physical buildings.
And the gospels and epistles both teach church government which without it there would be no structure.
Yes Jesus says in vs 23 the hour cometh and now is.
So that time is now! Personally I rarely attend church and don’t care if others do or not.I know many condemn that way of thinking,but church or the church system is taught in the bible since everyone who wrote the bible belonged to a church,sect or religious group of some form.
Walk into any church in your town and ask them if they worship God in spirit and truth and I doubt you get too many”no” answers.
I left organized religion about 40 years ago ,never went back
Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
the time that jesus speaked of is the time ;Lk 21:6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
at that time no one will be able to worship God neither in Jerusalem nor in the mountain,
so Jesus showed the way how God want his worshiper ,to worship him ,
this came true about 37 years after his death in 70 AD
the church or gathering does not matter for where 2 or 3 are together in Jesus name he will be with them ,
sects have been springing up but not for the true worship to God ,but for ;Lk 21:8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.
Okay, so Jesus taught the crowds according to you now. And I said that Jesus taught the crowds and now you agree when initially you seem to disagree. Yet somehow I am still wrong about this. Is this a mystery of some kind or is there a simple explanation to your view?
Yes Jesus says in vs 23 the hour cometh and now is.
So that time is now! Personally I rarely attend church and don’t care if others do or not.I know many condemn that way of thinking,but church or the church system is taught in the bible since everyone who wrote the bible belonged to a church,sect or religious group of some form.
Walk into any church in your town and ask them if they worship God in spirit and truth and I doubt you get too many”no” answers.
Andrew
I left organized religion about 40 years ago ,never went back
t8 Okay, so Jesus taught the crowds according to you now. And I said that Jesus taught the crowds and now you agree when initially you seem to disagree. Yet somehow I am still wrong about this. Is this a mystery of some kind or is there a simple explanation to your view? ======================================================
per ups one day you will see further ,with the eyes of the spirit ,
I left organized religion about 40 years ago ,never went back
Hi Pierre,
Which ‘organized religion’ did you leave?
Edj
catholic/jw/the church of God H Armstrong/7 days adventist /Mennonites/ Mormons/some jewish /Billy Graham /
all sects for the money
Hi Pierre,
Are you suggesting that at one time you were a member of all those organized religions ??? I don’t believe you – your answer is vague and a clear cut dodge. And don’t cry this is off topic because you freely offered up this information in the first place. If I say that I had friends one of which was a homosexual, it would NOT AT ALL be out of bounds for you ask me if I was one.
So again I repeat my question, and this time please answer:
Which SPECIFIC ‘religious organization’ were you affiliated with?
affiliated (adjective) being in close formal or informal association with
Okay, clear this up for me then. Did Jesus teach the crowds?
Yes / No / I don’t know.
Let your yes be yes and no be no.
if i answer yes you will have the wrong conclusion if i say No you have to argue on the very word “teaching” its real meaning and truth
so this is why I give you my explanation and the scriptures to be clear in my understanding of what Jesus said /teach so one more time I cannot answer your question with a yes or NO answer
Hi T8,
Here we see the same pattern. When one is pressed as to what they believe or how those beliefs were derived, they go vague.
We seen it when you pressed Gene Balthrop and again with Nick Hassan. We also seen it when I pressed Miia. And now we see it in Pierre.
I did not press for consequences of Miia, because I know that I can press her to get the answers. Banishment does not help anyone grow.
I’m all for pressing to get answers, remember “The Hot Seat” was my idea. What you need here is a Category which lists refuted beliefs, rather then banishment. Then when the same old tired beliefs are propagated time and time again one need only to provide the link to “The Hot Seat” to again show it was refuted instead of having refute it again and again and again.
Bodhitharta was a master at this: dodging the previous conversation by starting new threads which propagate the same old tired beliefs (that were previously refuted) My forum (Holy City Bible Code) is still too small for these added features
Thank you! Your beliefs are very similar to that of the JW’s:
I have “Bible Studied” with ‘Jehovah Witnesses’ on at least three occasions. I have also read many of their – in house – study guides. That is how I have become familiar with much of their doctrinal teachings.
Therefore I more specifically ask: What association did you have with members of the Jehovah Witnesses?
per ups one day you will see further ,with the eyes of the spirit ,
just remember what I said ,
Did you not challenge me when I said that Jesus taught the crowds. And then did you not decide to avoid answering yes to the question “Did Jesus teach the crowds”. Then did you not eventually realise that you had to say yes because I clearly spelled it out to you that Jesus taught the crowds by quoting a verse that said that very thing. Then did you not say that I was still wrong. And did you not say that I misunderstand you now. Did you not infer that I need the the eyes of the spirit.
Terr, what a joke. Be honest man. Our lives are too short to play mind games and use methods of deception. Be honest and man up to your lack. Face it and be a better person. Learn when you are rebuked or showed the truth. Why fight against the very thing that is designed to improve you as a man of God? Never deny the truth. Be a servant of it. Do not be its master or you will become the truth in your own eyes and deceive yourself.
t8 I don’t play games life is to short ,but you see things that I today do not see as it is written but as it is understood through the entire scriptures some call it the “spirit of scriptures”
this is why I said per ups you also will see things and understand them through the “spirit of the scriptures ”
I have shown you two scriptures one you provided and one i provided ;but you want to cancel one out ,I also ask you to respond to my scriptures that also marks a prophecy of old ,
but keep ignoring those questions ;and come back to your verse ;and on the base of what is written force me to answer your question ;
but i do not see the scriptures like you do and that is my point ;the scriptures are not one verse but the word of God’s truth ,
if you are so sure that the verse you like to promote as being prove that Jesus was teaching the crowd ;please tell me what did he teach them ?
what was his teachings that the crowds understood ? I do not argue that Jesus talked to the people /crowds
now if you were in the crowd of Jesus and the only thing you have learned from him is that he is a good talker and a good story teller are you sure you have been thought by him or just spooking to ?
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