Man begats man, God begats …?

Is Jesus God himself because he came from the Father and has the same nature?

We know that God’s nature is divine.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

We also know that there is only one God and He is the Father. God is a HE, not THEM as the doctrine of the Trinity suggests. Let me explain.

Let’s look at this from a different perspective. Adam was the first man right? But did you know that the word for ‘man’ in Genesis is ‘adam’?

Technically speaking then, Eve is ‘adam’ but not ‘Adam’. It is written that God created man (adam) male and female. This means she is part of mankind, but is not Adam who was the first man. There is only one Adam. Well there are actually two now because Jesus became the new / second / final Adam.

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Back to divine nature now. Does having divine nature make you God? The answer is no if you look at the next scripture.

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Notice how we who are born from God have his nature, but we are obviously not God and never will be. Jesus said the following:

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,”

Jesus acknowledges here indirectly that he is not the one true God. But we do know for sure that he is the son of that one true God though. Notice how he said that this truth is eternal life. It seems imperative then that we believe what he says if those words were eternal life. Further he said the following:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

So if we listen to Jesus, then we believe that he is the son of the one true God and not the one true God himself.

 

Viewing 20 posts - 301 through 320 (of 448 total)
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  • #868235
    Proclaimer
    Participant

     I didn’t make a statement, just provided the Word of God. Preconceived notions are interesting.

    Just to be clear, Mr Nobody, my posts were not aimed at you per se, but anyone who is part of the discussion here that believes in the Trinity or Binity doctrines. I do not even know what you believe as you have mostly quoted scripture at this point. Usually if I aim a post at someone, I say who it is at the beginning of the post. Most of the time I do not do that however as I am already in discussion with one or more people and they know full well who it was for.

    Just clearing things up in case you thought I was replying to you.

    Welcome BTW 🙂

    #868236
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    Are any of these verses in your list?

    Lu 2:11 For there is born to you this day a deliverer, who is the Lord Jehovah Messiah, in
    the city of David

    Joh 8:11 And she said: No man, Lord Jehovah. And Jesus said: Neither do I condemn thee.
    Go thou, and henceforth sin no more.

    Ac 2:36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know, assuredly, that God hath made that
    Jesus whom ye crucified, to be Lord Jehovah and Messiah.

    Ac 2:38 Simon said to them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you, in the name of the
    Lord Jehovah Jesus, for the remission of sins; so that ye may receive the gift of the
    Holy Spirit.

    Ac 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the legates, and related to them how
    the Lord Jehovah appeared to him in the way, and how he conversed with him; and
    how, in Damascus, he had discoursed openly in the name of Jesus.

    Ac 10:36 For this is the word, which he sent to the sons of Israel, announcing to them peace
    and rest by Jesus Messiah, He is Lord Jehovah of all;

    Ro 14:9 Moreover, for this cause Messiah died, and revived, and arose; that he might be
    Lord Jehovah of the dead and of the living.

    Ro 14:14 I know indeed, and am persuaded by the Lord Jehovah Jesus, that there is
    nothing which is unclean in itself; but to him who thinketh any thing to be unclean, to
    him only it is defiled.

    1Co 8:6 yet to us, on our part, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and
    we in him; and one Lord Jehovah, Jesus the Messiah, by whom are all things, and
    we also by him.

    1Co 11:27 He therefore, who eateth of the bread of the Lord Jehovah, and drinketh of his
    cup, and is not worthy of it, is guilty of the blood of the Lord Jehovah, and of his
    body.

    1Co 11:29 for, whoever eateth and drinketh of it, while he is unworthy, eateth and drinketh
    condemnation on himself, by not discerning the body of the Lord Jehovah.

    1Co 12:3 I therefore inform you, that there is no man, that speaketh by the Spirit of God,
    who saith that Jesus is accursed: neither can a man say that Jesus is the Lord
    Jehovah, except by the Holy Spirit.

    1Co 15:47 The first man was of dust from the earth; the second man was the Lord Jehovah
    from heaven.

    Php 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus the Messiah is the Lord Jehovah,
    to the glory of God his Father.

    Col 3:24 and know ye, that from our Lord ye will receive a recompense as the inheritance;
    for ye serve the Lord Jehovah the Messiah.

    1Pe 3:15 but sanctify the Lord Jehovah the Messiah, in your hearts. And be ye ready for a
    vindication, before every one who demandeth of you an account of the hope of your
    faith,

    Re 22:20 ¶ He who testifieth these things, saith: Yes, I come quickly. Amen. Come, Lord
    Jehovah Jesus!
    LU

    #868237
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The Tetragrammaton (/ˌtɛtrəˈɡræmətɒn/) or Tetragram (from Greek τετραγράμματον, meaning “[consisting of] four letters”) is the four-letter Hebrew word יהוה‎ (transliterated as YHWH), the name of the biblical God of Israel.

    The four letters, read from right to left, are yodh, he, waw, and he.

    While there is no consensus about the structure and etymology of the name, the form Yahweh is now accepted almost universally.

    The books of the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible except Esther, Ecclesiastes, and (with a possible instance in verse 8:6) the Song of Songs contain this Hebrew name.

    Observant Jews and those who follow Talmudic Jewish traditions do not pronounce יהוה‎ nor do they read aloud proposed transcription forms such as Yahweh or Yehovah; instead they replace it with a different term, whether in addressing or referring to the God of Israel. Common substitutions in Hebrew are Adonai (“My Lord”), HaShem (“The Name”) and hakadosh baruch hu (“The Holy One, Blessed Be He”).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

    #868238
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Be like Peter. He spoke the truth about who Jesus is because the Father revealed the truth to him

    Matthew 16:13-17
    13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
    “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
    14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
    15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
    17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”.
    18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

    #868240
    Nobody_Special
    Participant

    But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

    Does the word “theos” in the above verse apply to the Father or to the Son?

    What if the sceptre is Jesus’s everlasting Kingdom?

    Remember the old testament story (Pharoah? Where the king basically says, I will be king, in terms of the throne (in name only), I have given you the power and authority over the kingdom)

     

    The government will be upon His shoulders after all!

     

    P.s. I’m a noob. Thanks for welcoming me. Greetings y’all

    #868241
    Nobody_Special
    Participant

    @proclaimer, thanks,  and greetings

     

    . Everyone baptised into the body of Christ has drank of His Spirit,  and are one body with the Lord.

    Regardless of man’s feeble attempt at comprehending the magnitude and enormity of God.  The spirit searches the deep things of God.  So man-made doctrinal interpretations and divisions are not real or eternal, but temporary.  Knowledge puffs up, agape builds up.  I must not be wise in my own conceits.

     

    I have been influenced by many and desire to be rebuked with Truth.

    Remember the simplicity in Christ.

     

    And HE made Jesus Lord over his creation

    I don’t read Greek, Acts 2:36
    [36]Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    #868242
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all…..the word lord is in Hebrew (adoni ) meaning any ruler or magistrate of anykind. 

    The word LORD in hebrew is (adonai)  meaning the Almighty GOD.

    “the LORD (adonai, Almighty God ) said unto my lord (adoni, a human ruler) sit on my right, until I (adonai, Almighty God) make your enimies your foot stool.”  

    Those  two WORDS FOR LORD ARE NOT THE SAME IN THE HEBREW TEXT, as any true scholar of hebrew will tell you.  Jesus is not Almighty GOD, he is a lord  (a human ruler, judge, or magistrate) . 

    Why not just believe what Jesus himself said, “this is life, that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” true  GOD.  

    “YOU”……someone other then the one speaking. 

    “THE “ONLY”…..means no one else.

    “TRUE” GOD…….the sum of those word means, “THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, and it was not the one speaking. (JESUS)

    We either believe what Jesus himself said or not, it’s just that simple. Jesus knew full well he was not GOD, he never tried to be a God either. He worshipped and obeyed God the Father of all creation, exactly as we should also.

    Nobody-special. …….Surely,  your not saying that we should not stand up against false teachers are you?  Welcome to heaven net.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

     

    #868243
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Nobody_Special,

    You asked:

    What if the sceptre is Jesus’s everlasting Kingdom?

    Do you mean to say “is” here or “is of?”

    LU

    #868244
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Peter rightly says, regarding who Jesus is, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.”

    Is that all Jesus is? What are other names and descriptions for the Son of the Living God?

    I’ll start with these:

    Yahweh our Righteousness.

    Lord of lords.

    Lord of all.

    The Way, the Truth, and the Life.

    The Resurrection and the Life.

    The Giver of eternal life.

    Yahweh who, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the works of His hands.

    Yahweh is two persons who are One, the Father and the Son.

    LU

     

    #868245
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Gene,

    YOU: Yes Jesus said “the Father is in me”,  

    but that never made him the Father that was “IN” him. 

    ME: Gene,the above is your CARNAL UNDERSTANDING I’M AFRAID!

    NOW  READ AND CHEW THE WORDS PLEASE:

    John 14:7 If you had known ME,

    you would

    WITHOUT A DOUBT

    have known my Father also:

    and from henceforth you shall know him,

    and you have seen him.

    Genne IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE JESUS SIMPLY MADE IT

    EMPHATICALLY CLEAR THAT

    THERE ISN’T  A SINGLE DIFFERENCE

    BETWEEN THE FATHER AND JESUS!

    THEY ARE IDENTICALLY THE SAME!

    ANSWER Gene:

    ARE YOU IN THE POSITION TO EXPLAIN WHAT JESUS MEANT???

     

    Col 2:9….For “IN” him,  “dwells” all the fullness of the Godhead bodily “.

    YOU: The exact same thing applies to ALL WHO HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLING “IN” THEM. 

    PURE LIES!

    NO ONE ON EARTH FROM ADAM’S SIN AND TILL THE END OF THE WORLD COULD EVER BE IN ANY WAY

    DIRECTLY

    THE PHYSICAL CARRIER OF THE GODHEAD!

    EXPLAIN Gene, HOW HUMANS COULD HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLING “IN” THEM PLEASE.

    I’M WAITING TO HEAR YOUR ?????

     Gene, HUMANS IN ADAM

    REJECTED GOD AND DIED!

    THEY ARE BORN DEAD! IF YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS!

    THEY ARE MORTAL CREATURES ON THEIR CONCEPTION!

    WHETHER THEY WANT IT OR NOT, 

    THEY MUST AND HAD TO DIE!

    JESUS, THE SECOND ADAM,

    WAS NOT BORN MORTAL!

    IN THE SAME WAY 

    ADAM WAS ALSO CREATED NOT MORTAL.

    JESUS, HE HIMSELF OPTED TO COME AND DIE FOR THE HUMAN CAUSE ON EARTH! HE, ONLY HE HIMSELF HAD CONTROL OVER HIS OWN LIFE NO ONE COULD KILL JESUS IN ANY WAY UNLESS HE PERMITTED IT.

    John:19:17 Therefore doth the Father love me: because

    I lay down my life,

    that I may take it again. 

    18No man taketh it away from me:

    but I lay it down of myself,

    and I have power to lay it down:

    and I have power to take it up again.

    This commandment have I received of my Father.

    Luke 4:28And all they in the synagogue, hearing these things, were filled with anger. 29And they rose up and thrust him out of the city; and they brought him to the brow of the hill, whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong. 

    30But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.

    THEY SIMPLY COULD NOT GET HOLD OF HIM ANYMORE!

    YOU: “know you not that your body “IS” the temple of GOD”?  here are some scriptures that show this.

    ME : ALL THAT IN THE NEXT POST TO EXPOSE YOUR LIES!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #868246
    Ed J
    Participant

    The Tetragrammaton (/ˌtɛtrəˈɡræmətɒn/) or Tetragram (from Greek τετραγράμματον, meaning “[consisting of] four letters”) is the four-letter Hebrew word יהוה‎ (transliterated as YHWH), the name of the biblical God of Israel.

    Sorry, but Hebrew has no “W” sound. Stop perpetuating lies!

    YHVH is God’s name (יהוה) transliterated into English

    #868248
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Thanks Ed’s, I keep forgetting that.

    LU

    #868249
    Nobody_Special
    Participant

    Matthew 2:11
    [11]And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    #868250
    Nobody_Special
    Participant

    @ ed

    τετραγράμματον

    you know aleph and tov? The end looks like a tov to my gentile eyes.

    @ gene

    just rebuke gently with all authority, as Jesus did. Full of grace and truth.

    @ LU

    Yeah, it’s a half baked idea. If the righteous scepter is the person of Jesus, then the sceptre of the kingdom is…  ?

    If scepter means authority…

    ( Remember old testament, some woman touched the king’s rod /scepter /staff and he said, what you want? )

    then the Righteous is Jesus, the scepter is the Word and Power*, so rule of the kingdom is the strength of the Word and the Power (authority) it yields

    still authority in the name of. Still the power of God.

    *Paul didn’t come in word only, but in word and in power. Also search “signs of an apostle”

    Maybe developing the idea with the  messiah the BRANCH .

     

     

    #868258
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The worship argument doesn’t prove that Jesus is God

    We are to worship God only right? And Jesus was worshipped right?

    Correct.

    But Jesus is never worshipped as God. That is the key. What we shouldn’t do is worship another as God but the Father. We worship Jesus as the Son of God. Likewise, King David was worshipped as the King of Israel.

    Worship encompasses the words, honor, bowing down or prostrate toward, and declaring greatness.

    If legitimately worshipping a person means they are God, then King David is God and so are other humans as you will find out.

    We know the Father is worshipped as God

    No need to find scriptures to support that statement.

    The Son is worshipped as the Firstborn Son of God, King of the Jews, and the Lamb of God

    Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

    and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”

    And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

    “To him who sits on the throne AND to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
    The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

    Do you still say that Jesus is God because he is worshipped? Chew on this then.

    Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    #868261
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nobody-special……yes we are to bow our knee to Jesus , but remember the rest of the verse,  “to the glory of God”.  Notice it doesn’t say,  to the glory of Jesus.

    It is God the Father who has set Jesus as  king , and we give  glory for that very reason to him . The same thing applied to king David, those who bowed to him know he was God’s anointed King over Israel.   They did not bow to him as their God,  nor should we bow to Jesus as a God either. That is “idolatry “. 

    Most all of Christanity today bows and worships Jesus as their GOD, that is a sin. 

    Here is what God the Father told us………“you shall have no other God besides me”, you shall make no “image” of me in heaven above or earth beneath”  

    But false Christanity have taken “the man”, Jesus,  who said he was a “Son of man” over 80 times in scriptures, and turned the “image” of him into a GOD.  By doing that they have turned the “image” of  Jesus into a “man of sin”, 2ths2    the “man of sin” mentioned there is the “man” Jesus, that false Christanity has created . Which Jesus out of his own mouth will abolish or destory,  that false “image”  of him,  at his return,  Just as 2ths2 , shows him doing. Jesus is the “ONLY” MAN,  who has ever taken a seat in the “true”,  “temple of God” , and is being worshiped “now” as a God. 

    He that has ears let him hear.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

     

    #868268
    carmel
    Participant

    HI Gene,

    YOU: By doing that they have turned the “image” of  Jesus into a “man of sin”, 2ths2    the “man of sin” mentioned there is the “man” Jesus,

    that false Christanity (ME: preached by Jodi, Gene,) has created . 

    Which Jesus out of his own mouth will abolish or destory,  that false “image”  of him,  at his return,  Just as 2ths2 , shows him doing. Jesus is the “ONLY” MAN,  who has ever taken a seat in the “true”,  “temple of God” , and is being worshiped “now”

    as a God. 

    ME: NOT AS

    THE ONLY MANIFESTED

    TRUE GOD ON EARTH!

    He that has ears let him hear.

    SCRIPTURE:

    1John5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come:

    and he hath given us understanding that we may know

    the true God, and

    may be in his true Son.

    This is the true God and life eternal.

     

    John17:6 I have manifested thy name

    EXPLAIN, WHY AND HOW, JESUS MANIFESTED GOD’S NAME …?

    to the men whom thou hast given me

    out of the world.

    EXPLAIN, WHY, WHO, and HOW OUT OF THE WORLD?

    Thine they were, and to me thou gavest them;

    EXPLAIN, WHY, WHO, AND HOW THEY WERE

    GIVEN TO JESUS?

    and they have kept thy word. 

    7Now they have known, that all things which thou hast given me, are from thee:

    EXPLAIN, WHAT ALL THINGS FROM GOD, WHICH HAVE BEEN GIVEN

    TO JESUS FROM GOD ARE?

     8Because the words which thou gavest me, I have given to them; and they have received them,

    and have known in very deed that I came out from thee,

    EXPLAIN, HOW DID JESUS 

    COME OUT

    FROM GOD THE FATHER?

    and they have believed

    that thou didst send me.

     9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for

    them

    whom thou hast given me:

    EXPLAIN, WHY AND WHOM ARE THEY THAT

    GOD HAS GIVEN TO JESUS?

    because they are YOURS

    10 And all my things are YOURS, and YOURS are MINE;

    EXPLAIN:

    WHAT  ALL GOD’S THINGS ARE and ALSO ARE

     ALL JESUS’ THINGS, and vice versa?

    and I am

    GLORIFIED IN THEM.

    EXPLAIN, HOW AND WHY IS 

    JESUS GLORIFIED

    BOTH

    IN ALL GOD’S THINGS and ALSO

    IN ALL HIS THINGS?

    NEVER MIND Gene!

    DON’T BOTHER TO ANSWER ANY OF ALL THINGS MENTIONED ABOVE,

    FIRST AS THEY ARE ALL

    SPIRITUAL THINGS,

    OF WHICH YOU ARE BLIND OF, and

    WHICH CONTRADICT YOU AND

    YOUR CARNAL MINDED INTELLIGENCE,

    AND SECOND THEY ARE 

    ALL THINGS WHICH

    CONFIRM THAT 

    JESUS IS GOD!!!

    ANYHOW IF YOU FEEL YOURSELF IN THE POSITION TO EXPLAIN,

    SIMPLY EXPLAIN HOW ANY OF ALL THINGS AS MENTIONED ABOVE,

    CONFIRM NOT BOTH THAT

    JESUS IS GOD,  and to be

    WORSHIPPED!!!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #868272
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Nobody_Special,

    Heb 1:8

    But unto the Son: “Your throne, O God, is to the age of the age, and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

    The Son is being referred to as “God” here, not a scepter.

    LU

    #868276
    Berean
    Participant

    To all

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

    #868277
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    To All

    Isaiah 9:6 calls Jesus the mighty God, does this prove the Trinity?

    For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”‘

    Here we can see that Jesus is called “Mighty God”. The word in the Hebrew used here is not YHWH but “el” and this word means the following:

    1) god, godlike one, mighty one
    1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
    1b) angels
    1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
    1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
    2) mighty things in nature
    3) strength, power ”

    So Jesus is the Mighty El and this can be interpreted to mean that Jesus is the ‘mighty God like one’ according to the above definition which is also consistent with the overwhelming amount of scriptures that we have looked at so far. This interpretation is also in total agreement with the fact that, Jesus is the Image of God and the full expression of God in bodily form. If we take it to mean he is the Almighty God, then you do that because you started with the Trinity Doctrine or belief that Jesus is God rather than HIS Son.

    Isaiah 9:6 doesn’t say “Almighty God” and the existence of that term does lead to the logical conclusion that there are Gods or those who are called God but of a lesser position. The term “Mighty God” in Hebrew is ´El Gib·bohr´ and the term “Almighty God in Hebrew is ´El Shad·dai´ which applies uniquely to YHWH.

    In addition to the above, it specifically says that ‘his name shall be … mighty god…’ If this makes Jesus Almighty God himself, then without bias you also have to include these others as God too because they also have similar names like “Mighty God”:

    Ezekiel means “God will strengthen”;
    Elijah is “Eli Yahweh”. Eli is Most High and Yahweh is the name of God.
    Isaiah means “Salvation from Yahweh”;
    Gabriel means “Strong God”;
    Joshua means “Yahweh Saves”;
    Jerusalem was called “The LORD our Righteousness”;
    Abraham called a mountain “The LORD will Provide” (Yahweh Jireh).

    The other part of the scripture that mentions the term ‘Everlasting Father’ seems like a contradiction as it leads to some to believe that Jesus is actually the Heavenly Father leading to the Oneness doctrine. But the word ‘Father’ used here is “Ab” and this word is the same word that is used when talking of Abraham as our Father (Ab) and this scripture is just a reference to say that Jesus is our Everlasting Father. , in other words he is greater than Abraham.

    It is very important to read scriptures not only in context but also in agreement with other scriptures, especially since it is possible to interpret some scripture in more than one way. In fact we should always see things through Jesus eyes as he is the Truth. Many scriptures we have read so far were in fact the words of Jesus Christ himself. We should judge scripture with scripture in the same way that prophets should judge prophets and elders judge elders.

    Surely we should steer clear of man-made doctrine and formulas that try to explain God, as the things of God are revealed to us by the Spirit of God, not the spirit of man or the understanding of man. If we try to see God as an idol made with human hands, or for that matter made from the human mind, such as trying to shrink God down to a statue, mathematical formula or diagram, then it can be said that you have created an idol. This comes from the heart of man as his nature is corrupt and always wanting to raise himself above all things including God himself because he desires to be his own God. However, it is God who reveals himself to Man, not Man who reveals God. The things of God are revealed by the Spirit of God, not Man. Scripture is clear that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah sent by God. He is not the God that he is the son of as is the logical conclusion that the Trinity Doctrine leads us to.

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