Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,13:15)

Jammin hang in there. It's crazy how people can read that Jesus is called God even by the Father yet they can't call Him that themselves. Unity is not something they seem to understand. It takes balls to do what you do! Go Jammin!!

How hard is it to say that Jesus is our God with God and they are one??

that is right sis kathi
long time no post.

Christ is truly God
praise God

may God always bless you and your family

February 12, 2013 at 3:07 pm#335375

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To ALL………….> Jesus is our Brother who is now with God being Displayed as a False God , as spoken of in 2Ths 2 this false image of HIm changes our perception of Him as a Man, into a God , and that is The LIE Spoken of by Paul In 2 Ths 2. All who provacate this LIE are making the “IMAGE” of the “MAN” JESUS out to be a “MAN OF SIN” . It is a work of INIQUITY, Just as Paul said, this LIE was starting to Form even in His day .

It is also the source of a PREEXISTING JESUS another False teaching. Jesus called Himself a SON of MAN , over and over he also is a son of God Just as all who have The Spirit of GOD, abiding in them are sons of God also. Why do you think Jesus said when the son of “MAN” returns ,will he find Faith on the earth His first Job will be to destory this false teaching about Him by his very own word as is also said in 2 Ths 2. To him that has ears to hear let him hear

peace and love to you all………………………………………gene

February 12, 2013 at 10:28 pm#335390

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,18:59)

No human has a COMPLETE understanding of those words, t8, I'm quite sure.

That is no excuse to go around teaching that Jesus Christ is God himself.

There is no good excuse for false teaching. Only bad excuses.

And it is not hard to see that theos and elohim are used of many others in a legitimate way. Saying that no one understands is wrong. Blessed is he that understands.

February 12, 2013 at 11:09 pm#335399

Lightenup

Participant

There you go again t8, not comprehending what I teach. I never said that no one understands, I said, “no human has a COMPLETE understanding of the words theos and elohim. Can you see the difference between what you said here:

Quote

Saying that no one understands is wrong.

and what I actually said:

Quote

No human has a COMPLETE understanding of those words, t8, I'm quite sure.

You do this quite frequently, t8. You misrepresent my words. By leaving out the word 'complete' you skew the intent. Can you see this?

Furthermore, you also misunderstand what I teach.
you said:

Quote

That is no excuse to go around teaching that Jesus Christ is God himself.

I don't teach that Jesus is God himself as in God 'the Father.'

Last night I spent a few posts here to say that Jesus is our God with God and they are one, didn't I?? You agreed to this statement. That statement doesn't sound anything like teaching that He is the God who He is with.

So instead of telling people they are false teaching, you should realize that you not so hot at comprehending and are likely giving false testimony of what others are teaching considering you do it to me constantly!! I know firsthand about your comprehension problem.

Matt 19:20…If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,

February 13, 2013 at 12:30 am#335411

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 05 2012,03:42)

do not explain mike. read in 1 john 5.20 that john says that Christ is not the true GOD.

read it mike. ill wait. you can ask for help

Jammin.

If Jesus is the true God in that verse, then Jesus has a son called Jesus. If you accept that Jesus has a son called Jesus, then you don't have a contradiction with your view.

If you cannot accept that, then you have a contradiction and we do not.

Thus the problem is yours to work out.

Unless you invoke ignorance or avoidance.

However, reality usually has a good way of showing up ignorance and avoidance. So it is up to you if you want to face reality or continue dreaming.

February 13, 2013 at 12:38 am#335412

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 13 2013,12:09)

Last night I spent a few posts here to say that Jesus is our God with God and they are one, didn't I?? You agreed to this statement. That statement doesn't sound anything like teaching that He is the God who He is with.

Alright let's roll with that and see what can come of it.

1) If God the Father is God and Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God.

2) If the Father is (THE) God and Jesus is too and they are one, then just as Jesus said we can be one too, and just as he once said, “ye are gods”, then hello, now we are God too.

3) Further, your mother is the Mother of God too, so all mothers are mother of God, and all fathers are fathers of God.

We are all God. Welcome to the New Age. When you realise you are God and the Universe is one, then you will be enlightened.

See LU, Satan already knows this in advance and so would anyone with half a brain who thought about it.

And besides basic logic and consequence, scripture teaches no such thing because it is false. And don't get me started about angels because they are called elohim too.

February 13, 2013 at 1:01 am#335416

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14)

Mike,

Those who are raised up out of stones are created FROM THAT PARTICULAR DAY!

Jesus was in the Father's bosom from eternity………..

Hi Charles,

Psalm 2:7
I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.”

It seems Jesus also had his beginning “FROM THAT PARTICULAR DAY!”

I'm unfamiliar with the scripture that teaches us Jesus was “in the Father's bosom from eternity“.

Could you post that scripture, so we can all read it?

February 13, 2013 at 1:08 am#335417

Blocked

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2013,17:30)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 05 2012,03:42)

do not explain mike. read in 1 john 5.20 that john says that Christ is not the true GOD.

read it mike. ill wait. you can ask for help

Jammin.

If Jesus is the true God in that verse, then Jesus has a son called Jesus.

jammin is always asking us to prove the negative. He always asks for scriptures that specifically say, “Jesus is NOT God Almighty”.

I guess he thinks that if there is no scripture that SPECIFICALLY says Jesus ISN'T God Almighty, then he doesn't really need one that says Jesus IS God Almighty.

Of course, there is no scripture that SPECIFICALLY says Moses isn't God Almighty. Or Abraham. Or Peter. Or Michael. Or even Satan.

By jammin's reasoning, any of us can start our own doctrine, claiming any of the above is God Almighty. And we'd be right in his eyes, because there isn't any scripture that SPECIFICALLY says any of them are NOT God Almighty.

Hey jammin, can you read in any scripture that Satan is NOT God Almighty?

February 13, 2013 at 4:13 am#335441

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 12 2013,19:01)

Quote (carmel @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14)

Mike,

Those who are raised up out of stones are created FROM THAT PARTICULAR DAY!

Jesus was in the Father's bosom from eternity………..

Hi Charles,

Psalm 2:7
I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.”

It seems Jesus also had his beginning “FROM THAT PARTICULAR DAY!”

I'm unfamiliar with the scripture that teaches us Jesus was “in the Father's bosom from eternity“.

Could you post that scripture, so we can all read it?

Charles,
Get ready for a headache.

I have clearly shown Mike that children that are begotten/born on a certain day already existed for months beforehand. So, if the Son was begotten on a certain day, that means He existed prior to that day and not that He begun to exist on that day He was begotten/born.

If you must continue your discussion, you might ask him if Jesus existed before the day that He was begotten/born out of Mary.

February 13, 2013 at 4:28 am#335445

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2013,18:38)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 13 2013,12:09)

Alright let's roll with that and see what can come of it.

1) If God the Father is God and Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God.

2) If the Father is (THE) God and Jesus is too and they are one, then just as Jesus said we can be one too, and just as he once said, “ye are gods”, then hello, now we are God too.

3) Further, your mother is the Mother of God too, so all mothers are mother of God, and all fathers are fathers of God.

We are all God. Welcome to the New Age. When you realise you are God and the Universe is one, then you will be enlightened.

See LU, Satan already knows this in advance and so would anyone with half a brain who thought about it.

And besides basic logic and consequence, scripture teaches no such thing because it is false. And don't get me started about angels because they are called elohim too.

t8,

Wow, that is pretty lame!
you said:

Quote

1) If God the Father is God and Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God.

This argument fails from the beginning.
You have already admitted that Jesus is our God with God and they are one.

Mary is the mother of the 'shoot' not the 'root.' She is the mother of the man, not the begotten God. God, the Son already existed way before Mary got involved.

Quote

2) If the Father is (THE) God and Jesus is too and they are one, then just as Jesus said we can be one too, and just as he once said, “ye are gods”, then hello, now we are God too.

They are one…not one God…one as in unity and we can be one in unity also. They are one in unity as a Godhead and we can be one in unity as the church.

Quote

3) Further, your mother is the Mother of God too, so all mothers are mother of God, and all fathers are fathers of God.

No mother is the mother of God…see above…so much for your illogical goofy conclusions. You should really take a break, you may be trying too hard. This is all really simple.

No need to back peddle. It has already been established that you agree:

Jesus is our God with God and they are one.

February 13, 2013 at 7:09 am#335463

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 13 2013,10:30)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 05 2012,03:42)

do not explain mike. read in 1 john 5.20 that john says that Christ is not the true GOD.

read it mike. ill wait. you can ask for help

Jammin.

If Jesus is the true God in that verse, then Jesus has a son called Jesus. If you accept that Jesus has a son called Jesus, then you don't have a contradiction with your view.

If you cannot accept that, then you have a contradiction and we do not.

Thus the problem is yours to work out.

Unless you invoke ignorance or avoidance.

However, reality usually has a good way of showing up ignorance and avoidance. So it is up to you if you want to face reality or continue dreaming.

that is reasoning is from INC of manalo.

that is not what the bible says.
you can read your bible and see for yourself that Christ is God by nature.
that is a written word in the bible.
you want me to give the verse to you boy?

here is the verse
Philippians 2:6

New International Version (NIV)

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,

Philippians 2:6

New Living Translation (NLT)

6 Though he was God,[a]

did you see that>?

if not, wear eyeglasses.

btw i have one question for you. if you have the FORM OF MAN, are not you MAN? yes or no?

February 13, 2013 at 7:11 am#335464

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2013,11:08)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2013,17:30)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 05 2012,03:42)

do not explain mike. read in 1 john 5.20 that john says that Christ is not the true GOD.

read it mike. ill wait. you can ask for help

Jammin.

If Jesus is the true God in that verse, then Jesus has a son called Jesus.

jammin is always asking us to prove the negative. He always asks for scriptures that specifically say, “Jesus is NOT God Almighty”.

I guess he thinks that if there is no scripture that SPECIFICALLY says Jesus ISN'T God Almighty, then he doesn't really need one that says Jesus IS God Almighty.

Of course, there is no scripture that SPECIFICALLY says Moses isn't God Almighty. Or Abraham. Or Peter. Or Michael. Or even Satan.

Hey jammin, can you read in any scripture that Satan is NOT God Almighty?

bec i can read in 1 john 5.20 that Christ is truly God boy.
that is why im asking you and i know you cant give me any single version that says in 1 john 5.20 that Christ is not truly God.
you cant give me one mike im sure.

here is what written in 1 john 5.20
1 John 5:20

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

study haard boy

February 13, 2013 at 7:13 am#335465

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 13 2013,01:07)

peace and love to you all………………………………………gene

what you are saying is not the whole truth. your doctrine is false

February 13, 2013 at 4:44 pm#335507

journey42

Participant

jammin,Feb. wrote:

[/quote]
Hi Jammin

Why don't you come over to the prophecy section?
You've been stuck here too long

A change of subject might be good :;):

February 14, 2013 at 2:09 am#335560

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 12 2013,21:13)

I have clearly shown Mike that children that are begotten/born on a certain day already existed for months beforehand.

And I have clearly shown you that ANY child who has EVER been begotten was also subject to a time when he DIDN'T exist at all.

I know you WANT this to be different in the case of Jesus, but there isn't a single scripture out there that says it was.

Surely God knew how we humans would understand the words “son”, “firstborn”, and “only begotten”. Why do you suppose God would TRICK us by using these words for His own “Son” – if the the standard things that go along with those words didn't also apply to Jesus?

Ie: If Jesus has existed as long as his “Father” and “God”, why does Jehovah call him “my Son”? Why does God even mention the word “begotten” at all?

Surely God would have known how these terms would confuse us, if Jesus truly had existed from eternity, right?

And, if Jesus truly has existed for as long as his “Father”, then the terms “Father” and “Son” aren't even accurate. If that was the case, then Jesus is a “Brother” to, or “Co-God” with Jehovah.

Kathi, your doctrine is not really made up from scriptures. It was conceived of your own personal desires, and driven along by your own vivid imagination .

Show me the scripture that says Jesus has existed from eternity. Show me the scripture that says, in the case of Jesus, a “son” and “father” can exist from the same point in time (or before time, or whatever).

If you cannot produce said scriptures, then why should people like me, Pierre, and t8 even bother refuting what amounts to nothing more than your vivid imagination and personal desires?

February 14, 2013 at 2:15 am#335563

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Feb. 13 2013,00:09)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 13 2013,10:30)

Jammin.

If Jesus is the true God in that verse, then Jesus has a son called Jesus. If you accept that Jesus has a son called Jesus, then you don't have a contradiction with your view.

If you cannot accept that, then you have a contradiction and we do not.

that is reasoning is from INC of manalo.

I don't know who “INC of manalo” is, but I know that argument is lame.

Suppose a devil worshipper once said, “Cheeseburgers are good!”

Now, if I later come to my own conclusion that cheeseburgers are good, is it because “my reasoning comes from” that devil worshipper?

And would that devil worshipper automatically be wrong about cheeseburgers being good – just because he is a devil worshipper?

Come up with some better stuff, jammin.

February 14, 2013 at 2:21 am#335567

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Feb. 13 2013,00:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2013,11:08)

Hey jammin, can you read in any scripture that Satan is NOT God Almighty?

bec i can read in 1 john 5.20 that Christ is truly God boy.

You can't read it in the REAL words of the scripture.

If you feel justified by the fact that the version (I won't even call it a “translation”) you quoted ADDED the words “Jesus Christ” to the last line of that verse, then I feel very sorry for you.

And if you think that version even makes sense, I feel even more sorry for you.

February 14, 2013 at 2:22 am#335570

Blocked

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 13 2013,09:44)

Hi Jammin

Why don't you come over to the prophecy section?

Yeah. Go bug those guys for a while.

(But remember that journey is a girl, so don't call her “boy” like you disrepectfully call the rest of us, okay?)

February 14, 2013 at 2:37 am#335571

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 13 2013,17:28)

Mary is the mother of the 'shoot' not the 'root.' She is the mother of the man, not the begotten God. God, the Son already existed way before Mary got involved.

Oh that is right. He is the man/god. Where is that in scripture again?

February 14, 2013 at 2:37 am#335572