Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

Participant

nick,

thanks

March 26, 2012 at 4:05 am#287862

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,14:40)

Hi Jammin,
Don't mind Ed but he thinks it has all happened already.
He does not grasp the return of the King and the millenial kingdom[ps2]

Isaiah 33:17 Thine eyes(Ed J) shall see the king in his beauty:
they(?) shall behold the land that is very far off (in the future).

March 26, 2012 at 4:35 am#287878

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,20:26)

almighty refers to the nature of GOD.
Christ is GOD by nature, he is almighty!

So it is your claim that Jesus IS God Almighty at the same time God Almighty is his own God?

So you truly think Jesus is his own God, jammin?

Or that there are TWO God Almighties?

March 26, 2012 at 4:38 am#287879

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,20:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,13:15)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 25 2012,20:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,12:59)

Also, the word “christ” refers to one who has been anointed BY God. I roll my eyes each time I read you claim that the Christ OF God is the very God who anointed him.

Hi Mike,

When was Jesus anointed?

Well Ed,

“JESUS CHRIST” was existing in the form of God BEFORE he was made into the likeness of a human being.

So, sometime before he came to earth.

Hi MB,
So why would a lesser god need anointing and what did this empowering do to him and why did it not manifest till the Jordan??

I think your God is too small.

Were not those to whom the word of God came called “gods”? Were not some of those anointed?

And you keep saying it wasn't manifest until the Jordan, but scripture says Jesus was teaching and amazing all who heard him when he was but 12 years old.

Nick, what you personally “think” has nothing to do with scriptural truth. Don't make the scriptures conform to your personal thoughts, but instead conform your thoughts around the written word of God.

March 26, 2012 at 4:42 am#287882

NickHassan

Participant

Hi MB,
Come on. One day's teaching in 30 years proves he has been anointed??

March 26, 2012 at 4:44 am#287885

NickHassan

Participant

Hi MB,
Even his neighbours were astounded at what changed in the Nazarene but you are not convinced?

March 26, 2012 at 5:34 am#287908

Participant

Quote

David,

Read this :

JOHN 17 :3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent

According to you what is the right definition OF:

“that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ,”

Hi Carmel.

“Jesus” is a name.

“the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”

If I said this about a person or persons on this forum the words below, what would you think?
“get to know the best Debater, and Mike the moderator, whom he sent.”

Now, if “mike” (or “Jesus”) wasn't a name, I would understand what you are saying. If it just said: “get to know the best Debator, and the moderator, whom he sent,” then, in English at least, it sort of makes sense.

Except, we know that someone here sent someone else, hence, speaking of two people.

BUT, “the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”

If it said: “Jesus Christ, the only true God….” obviously, that's different. The “and” either indicates another person, or it indicates another descriptive word (such as “God.”) But, the name “Jesus” in there seems to throw everything off. People don't speak that way, at least not in English. My Greek isn't so great though.

March 26, 2012 at 5:51 am#287911

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 26 2012,12:50)

Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2012,04:39)

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:42)

Jammin, you said:

“the son is also called the true GOD.”

So I asked:
“In this verse? Where? Please explain. Please explain why your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” when they don't exist in the original writing? Were the original writers right, or was the translation team that added those words right? Please answer this.”

I've actually asked this many times.

Jammin, why are you unable to actually discuss or explain this verse? is it because deep down you know it is just your opinion, and not what the Bible actually says.

For the 7th time, where does it say those words?

And, why do you want to keep it a secret, if you are trying to tell us it's true?

oh really

let me post the verse again
1 John 5:20

English Standard Version (ESV)

20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

cant you read that?
the father is called the true GOD
the son is also called the true GOD

the father and the son have the same nature , GOD.
Philippians 2:6

New International Version (NIV)

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

the father is truly GOD. the son is also truly GOD.
that's what the bible says.

if you agree that your father is truly man, you are also truly man bec you have the same nature, MAN.

now can you read any single verse that says Christ is not truly GOD?

give me any single verse.

Jammin,
Great, you are attempting to discuss 1 John 5:20.

Jammin, did you notice this:

“.”

It's a period.

It indicates that the one sentence was done and another sentence began.

I find it interesting that you didn't want to use the GW Bible.

Just so there is no confusion, can you fill in the blanks for me:

“And we know that the Son of God [Jesus] has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true[?]; and we are in him who is true[?], in his Son Jesus Christ. He [?] is the true God and eternal life.”

Quote

cant you read that?
the father is called the true GOD
the son is also called the true GOD

I find neither of these phrases in there, but if you filled in the blanks, maybe it would help.

March 26, 2012 at 8:37 am#287937

Participant

david,

the apple is green. it is so delicious.

what is so delicious?

March 26, 2012 at 8:38 am#287938

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,15:35)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,20:26)

almighty refers to the nature of GOD.
Christ is GOD by nature, he is almighty!

So it is your claim that Jesus IS God Almighty at the same time God Almighty is his own God?

So you truly think Jesus is his own God, jammin?

Or that there are TWO God Almighties?

by nature, GOD is almighty.
do you agree??

by nature, Man is limited.

do you agree??

Christ has the same nature as GOD.

read your bible well mike

phil 2.6
john 1.1

March 26, 2012 at 9:56 am#287957

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,18:40)

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:51)

Why does Jammin keep ignoring 1 John 5:20? Isn't that what this discussion is about?

that is the true meaning of 1 john 5.20

john said that Christ is the true GOD.

your opinion will always be an opinion.

until now you cant even read any single verse that Christ is not called the true GOD.

study hard boy

Jammin if you are saying that Jesus is the true God, then I can easily prove that wrong using the very same verse.

The one who is true has a son called Jesus Christ. So that means it must be the Father. Unless of course you are making the case that Jesus had a son called Jesus which I doubt you are. So the one who is true is the true God.

1 John 5:20
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

March 26, 2012 at 10:15 am#287960

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 26 2012,22:38)

by nature, GOD is almighty.
do you agree??

by nature, Man is limited.

do you agree??

Christ has the same nature as GOD.

read your bible well mike

Jammin.

We can partake in divine nature.
What say you now? Are we God too?

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Jammin. It looks like you too are confused as to the difference between identity and nature.

“Eve was man, but Eve was not THE man.”

This sentence should show you the difference because it references the same word being used in a nature and also an identifying context. The result is that they are not the same person. Do you see that?

March 26, 2012 at 11:45 am#287968

Participant

it says “you may participate in the divine nature”

it means it is not really your nature, but you may participate.

but Christ is different. he has the nature of GOD phil2.6

better luck next time t8

March 26, 2012 at 9:42 pm#288015

Proclaimer

Participant

Don't need luck jammin because to partake is to join in.

And we are told that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his.
We are also told that he calls us brothers. Brothers are of like kind.
And Jesus partook of flesh nature and he was a man, so he became like us.

You still lack understanding with regards to the difference between identity and nature as do all Trinitarians who teach their doctrine.

And I noticed you did not refute my last 2 posts, so I take it that you could not and now you will be doing some searching on this subject. If not, then why are you a follower of Christ if you do not pursue truth. I say this in advance in case you ignore what I said in those posts. Please disregard if you are serious about checking it out.

March 26, 2012 at 11:36 pm#288047

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,22:42)

Hi MB,
Come on. One day's teaching in 30 years proves he has been anointed??

No Nick,

The angel saying he was born the Christ, and Simeon having his promise kept to see the Christ prove he had already been anointed. But this is off topic for this thread, Nick.

March 26, 2012 at 11:38 pm#288048

Blocked

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,23:34)

If I said this about a person or persons on this forum the words below, what would you think?
“get to know the best Debater, and Mike the moderator, whom he sent.”

That was a bad example, David – because I AM the best debater!

March 27, 2012 at 3:32 am#288122

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2012,10:38)

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,23:34)

If I said this about a person or persons on this forum the words below, what would you think?
“get to know the best Debater, and Mike the moderator, whom he sent.”

That was a bad example, David – because I AM the best debater!

The thing is Mike, Jammin (or others who think like him) can look at those words and think that the mean that Mike is the best Debator (even if “mike” was “sent” by that one).

So, according to some, maybe I did say you were the best debator. I guess it would take a very very very good debator to prove that though.

March 27, 2012 at 3:34 am#288123

NickHassan

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2012,10:36)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,22:42)

Hi MB,
Come on. One day's teaching in 30 years proves he has been anointed??

No Nick,

The angel saying he was born the Christ, and Simeon having his promise kept to see the Christ prove he had already been anointed. But this is off topic for this thread, Nick.

Hi MB,
Why deny that JESUS OF NAZARETH was anointed[acts 10.38]

March 27, 2012 at 3:34 am#288124

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 26 2012,19:37)

david,

the apple is green. it is so delicious.

what is so delicious?

Hi Jammin.

I have found that when someone is confronted with something they can't respond to, their brain seems to shut down and they start typing random words.

(shout out to Nick! 🙂

david.

March 27, 2012 at 3:36 am#288125