Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

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Quote (jammin @ Mar. 24 2012,07:19)

Philippians 2:6

New Living Translation (NLT)

6 Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.

He WAS God, but didn't think he should be EQUAL TO God?

jammin, does that translation really make sense to you?

March 24, 2012 at 2:54 pm#287218

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Quote (jammin @ Mar. 24 2012,07:19)

and you agree and i know that you believe that Christ became flesh.

Yes jammin,

We agree that Jesus was the Word mentioned in John 1:1, 1:14, and Rev 19:13 – all by the same author.

We agree that he emptied himself of the form of God and was made into the likeness of a human being.

We only differ in that I believe the scriptures when they say Jesus is the Son of God, while you want to make him into the very God he is said to be the Son of.

jammin, Jesus said that our God was also his God. Jesus calls him “my God” 4 times in one verse. (Rev 3:12) Jesus says he is the beginning of the creation of his God two verses later.

March 24, 2012 at 2:55 pm#287219

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Quote (jammin @ Mar. 24 2012,07:07)

it is true that son called the father true GOD.

You left out the word “only”, jammin.

Jesus said his Father was the “ONLY true God”.

March 24, 2012 at 5:20 pm#287241

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2012,10:27)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 22 2012,23:00)

mike,

the father is called the true GOD
the son is also called the true GOD!

No he's not. In fact, it is the Son who actually calls his Father “the ONLY true God”.

Hi Mike,

Are you suggesting that Jesus is(?) a god who IS UNTRUE?
It is you who calls Jesus a god, correct? How does this add up?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 24, 2012 at 5:28 pm#287242

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 23 2012,02:59)

Quote (david @ Mar. 22 2012,17:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,05:14)

Hi Jammin,
There are NO VERSES that say that Adam, Cyrus or Elizabeth ARE NOT GOD.
Does such thinking lead to progress?

“nick,

the topic here is Christ not Adam etc.”

Ok, JAMMIN,
then can you give me a scripture that says: “CHRIST is not Michael the Archangel”?

I guess Christ IS Michael the Archangel because try as you might, you simply can't find a scripture that says he is not.

Go ahead. Check every Bible! I dare you to find a verse in any Bible in the world that says: “christ is not Michael the Archangel.”

So there you have it. I have just ended the years of debate over whether Christ is Michael the archangel. We can finally end those 7 threads. Great….unless anyone can find a verse that says: “Christ is NOT Michael the archangel.”?

I'll wait. Find the verse. I double dare you. And before you start saying how crazy that is, or saying that Jesus isn't an angel, note that I am proving this the same way you seem to be proving that Christ is the true God–because the Bible doesn't say he isn't. Same logic. Same bizarre, twisted, false logic.

If you can't find such a verse, then I have to assume by now that you believe that Jesus is indeed Michael the archangel.

Hi David,

It is nice to see you willing ADMIT that there are others
that use Jammin's faulty logic when evaluating Scripture!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed, I have never stated this as proof of anything obviously. it's as ridiculous as claiming that Christ is God because nowhere does the Bible say: “Christ is not God.” It's in character of you to attack things I have never said or used as argumentation.

March 24, 2012 at 5:30 pm#287243

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2012,10:41)

Hi MB,
But not of blood.
Not of the desires of men.
jn 1 12

The sons of God are begotten of Him[jn1.12]-His Spirit– and led by the Spirit [rom8].

Hi Nick, I don't see the word “begotten” there? We talked about this, remember?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power
TO BECOME (Rom.8:15, Eph.1:5) the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 24, 2012 at 5:32 pm#287244

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 22 2012,20:51)

archangel is not the topic here david,

make your own thread.

now read to me anywhere in the bible that says Christ is not truly GOD!

if you can read any single verse then ill quit.

but if you cant read any single verse, and i will read to you that Christ is truly GOD, will you accpt that you are a false teacher?

pls answer yes or no/.

Jammin, all I'm saying is that:

BASED ON YOUR OWN LOGIC:

YOU MUST BELIEVE THAT CHRIST IS THE ARCHANGEL, MICHAEL.

So, if I were to start another thread that said Christ was the archangel, you would have to agree with that statement, because it fits perfectly well with your absurd logic.

Notice to everyone:

Jammin believes that Christ is Michael the Archangel.

I know this is true because nowhere does the Bible state that “Christ is not Michael the archangel,” and since that is Jammin's precise line of reasoning, he would be contradicting his own logic to state otherwise. So:

Jammin believes that Christ is Michael the Archangel.

I will perhaps start a thread that says those exact words. And we know those words must be true, because the Bible doesn't say they aren't true. Right?

March 24, 2012 at 5:34 pm#287245

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,00:22)

may GOD open your heart and eyes.

Amen!

March 24, 2012 at 5:36 pm#287247

Participant

Quote

now read to me anywhere in the bible that says Christ is not truly GOD!

if you can read any single verse then ill quit.

but if you cant read any single verse, and i will read to you that Christ is truly GOD, will you accpt that you are a false teacher?

pls answer yes or no/.

jammin, stay on topic. This thread is about 1 John 5:20. I of course know that jesus is called “god” and “mighty God” in the Bible and also by Thomas “my lord and my God.” But I also know that angels, human Israelite Judges were called “gods.” I actually know what the word 'god' means. It can be applied to more than the one true “almighty” God, the Father.

But, if this thread is about 1 John 5:20, (the actual Greek, what the actual words actually said when written, and not with added words) then yes, I challenge you to show me where 1 John 5:20 says what you claim it says.

March 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm#287248

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 23 2012,16:00)

mike,

the father is called the true GOD
the son is also called the true GOD!

that's what the bible says

better luck next time

WHERE?

I've asked this several times jammin.

You just keep repeating statements with no actual scriptures.

Go make your own version. This thread is about 1 John 5:20. Yet, you refuse to discuss it.

Go make your own version. 🙂

March 24, 2012 at 5:42 pm#287249

Participant

Jammin, you said:

“the son is also called the true GOD.”

So I asked:
“In this verse? Where? Please explain. Please explain why your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” when they don't exist in the original writing? Were the original writers right, or was the translation team that added those words right? Please answer this.”

I've actually asked this many times.

Jammin, why are you unable to actually discuss or explain this verse? is it because deep down you know it is just your opinion, and not what the Bible actually says.

March 24, 2012 at 5:44 pm#287250

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Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 24 2012,11:20)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2012,10:27)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 22 2012,23:00)

mike,

the father is called the true GOD
the son is also called the true GOD!

No he's not. In fact, it is the Son who actually calls his Father “the ONLY true God”.

Hi Mike,

Are you suggesting that Jesus is(?) a god who IS UNTRUE?
It is you who calls Jesus a god, correct? How does this add up?

God bless
Ed J

Ed,

I'll use David's words to answer your question:

“I actually know what the word 'god' means. It can be applied to more than the one true 'almighty' God, the Father.”

David was the King of Israel at the same time God was the “only true King of Israel”.

If you think this means David was an “untrue king”, or “no king at all”, then you have little comprehension on this issue.

March 24, 2012 at 5:45 pm#287251

Participant

On, MATTHEW 16:16

jammin, you also NEVER ANSWERED this question:

If I said:

“Ed is smart, a true word smith,” does this mean that “word smith” is the definition of “smart”?

Just like 1 John 5:20, which you REFUSE to discuss or look at, Matthew 16:16 is similar. You just repeatedly state: “Mat 16:16,” but can't explain it or think about it or consider what you are saying or if it makes any sense at all. Your reasoning on Matthew 16:16 is highly illogical. And no one else in the entire world believes it.

March 24, 2012 at 5:47 pm#287252

Participant

Quote

I'll use David's words to answer your question:

“I actually know what the word 'god' means. It can be applied to more than the one true 'almighty' God, the Father.”

David was the King of Israel at the same time God was the “only true King of Israel”.

If you think this means David was an “untrue king”, or “no king at all”, then you have little comprehension on this issue.

HI MIKE.
All these David's are confusing. Question: Does the Bible say that God was the “only true king of Israel” anywhere? Or was that one of us that said it? I have a file I would like to add it to if it is in the Bible.

March 24, 2012 at 5:50 pm#287254

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 22 2012,17:35)

Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2012,15:48)

QUESTION:

Where in 1 John 5:20 are we told that Christ is God?

Jammin, I am pretty sure you never answered this.

I don't think you actually have any desire to discuss this scripture.

Do you?

I actually like this scripture and so I like to discuss it.

Why do you refuse to discuss this scripture?

Where in this scripture does it say what you claim it says? Please point it out. Please quote the exact words. If you can't do this, then it seems you have no case and are just expressing your own opinions and not what the bible says.

I no longer think that jammin actually believes what he is saying, because he has no desire to actually discuss 1 John 5:20.
If he wants people to believe that 1 John 5:20 says what he claims, doesn't he know that he would have to actually present some sort of evidence or discussion and not merely repeat his own opinion?

March 24, 2012 at 5:50 pm#287255

Blocked

I said it.

March 24, 2012 at 5:51 pm#287256

Participant

Why does Jammin keep ignoring 1 John 5:20? Isn't that what this discussion is about?

March 24, 2012 at 5:57 pm#287257

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:28)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 23 2012,02:59)

Quote (david @ Mar. 22 2012,17:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,05:14)

Hi Jammin,
There are NO VERSES that say that Adam, Cyrus or Elizabeth ARE NOT GOD.
Does such thinking lead to progress?

“nick,

the topic here is Christ not Adam etc.”

Ok, JAMMIN,
then can you give me a scripture that says: “CHRIST is not Michael the Archangel”?

I guess Christ IS Michael the Archangel because try as you might, you simply can't find a scripture that says he is not.

Go ahead. Check every Bible! I dare you to find a verse in any Bible in the world that says: “christ is not Michael the Archangel.”

If you can't find such a verse, then I have to assume by now that you believe that Jesus is indeed Michael the archangel.

Hi David,

It is nice to see you willing ADMIT that there are others
that use Jammin's faulty logic when evaluating Scripture!

God bless
Ed J

Hi David, (Is Heb 1:4-6 not clear to YOU?)

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

The Scripture is clear:

Heb 1:4-6 Being made so much better than the angels,
as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name
than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee (John 3:5-6)?
And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world,
he saith, And let all the angels of God (inc. Michael) worship him.

Jesus therefore: CANNOT be Michael the Archangel!

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

March 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm#287258

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,04:32)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 22 2012,20:51)

archangel is not the topic here david,

make your own thread.

now read to me anywhere in the bible that says Christ is not truly GOD!

if you can read any single verse then ill quit.

but if you cant read any single verse, and i will read to you that Christ is truly GOD, will you accpt that you are a false teacher?

pls answer yes or no/.

Jammin, all I'm saying is that:

BASED ON YOUR OWN LOGIC:

YOU MUST BELIEVE THAT CHRIST IS THE ARCHANGEL, MICHAEL.

So, if I were to start another thread that said Christ was the archangel, you would have to agree with that statement, because it fits perfectly well with your absurd logic.

Notice to everyone:

Jammin believes that Christ is Michael the Archangel.

I will perhaps start a thread that says those exact words. And we know those words must be true, because the Bible doesn't say they aren't true. Right?

1. The Bible doesn't say: “Christ is NOT God”

2. This is proof for Jammin that Christ IS God,

Following the exact same logic:

1. Bible doesn't say: “Christ is NOT Michael the Archangel”

2. This therefore must be proof that Christ IS Michael.

(for Ed: I'm not using this as proof of Christ being Michael as you falsely stated, but pointing out what I believe everyone on the planet rightly sees as an absurdity in logical thinking.)

March 24, 2012 at 6:01 pm#287259