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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 19,541 through 19,560 (of 25,956 total)
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    Posts
  • May 9, 2016 at 2:42 pm#813834
    terraricca
    Participant

    ED

    if this is the way you really see it ED ,may it so be ,has you say ;

    but I told you the truth ,this God knows

    May 9, 2016 at 5:09 pm#813877
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t,

    You have little familiarity with truth.

    Knowing the words does not get you very far in understanding what God meant.

    May 9, 2016 at 6:38 pm#813879
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi N

    your opinions surely won’t do it ,

    May 11, 2016 at 9:06 am#814029
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,

    Compare verse with verse.

    Find truth by agreement with scriptural witnesses.

    But you deny the book of Acts.

    Any others we should get rid of?

    May 11, 2016 at 9:35 am#814034
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    Jesus came to talk to prophets not to all men ;this was the son that was sent to Us Jesus ,

    So you see a difference between the [prophets] and the ancestors of the children of God. I see no difference and as I pointed out the prophets spoke the word as they were carried along by the Spirit of God, which is the Spirit of Christ.

    If the word that comes out of God’s mouth had not come to them then they would not have been able to speak it. They were not repeating what another told but rather they spoke the word that came to them; that same word that spoke through them.

    The parable has the Heir coming later not earlier. It is also not the Son that sends servants to the workers.

    May 11, 2016 at 9:56 am#814039
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    prophets do not speak from themselves or they would be liars ,

    the prophets are the people chosen by God with whom he will talk ,end of story

    of course you can believe what you want ;i will not stop you of doing just that ;even if you find me truthful I don’t want you to follow me but the scriptures ,

    and you are so wrong on your last sentence ;

    If the word that comes out of God’s mouth had not come to them then they would not have been able to speak it. They were not repeating what another told but rather they spoke the word that came to them; that same word that spoke through them.
    =======================================================================

    Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
    Rev 1:2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    look how many transmited the spoken words of God ;learn

    May 11, 2016 at 11:29 am#814060
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @kerwin

    You said:

    Jesus is that flesh.

    Do you trust in flesh?

    I trust the one who was born the messiah, Lord, and son of God. He came in the flesh for our sake. It is not the flesh we trust, but he came in the flesh so he could save us. He became one of us, so we can be one of him.

    The Antichrist spirit denies that Jesus came in the flesh. Saying that he is the actual flesh means HE didn’t come in the flesh because he is the actual flesh.

    You can’t wear a pair of trousers if you are the trousers.

    Jesus cannot come in the flesh if he is the flesh. Otherwise the flesh came in the flesh.

    The Spirit of God will not deny that Jesus came in the flesh.

    May 11, 2016 at 11:34 am#814061
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,

     

    You say

    “Prophets do not speak of themselves.”

    Guess what.

     

    Jesus was the great prophet spoken of by Moses, and taken from YOUR BRETHREN..

    Acts 3.22-23

     

    But you think he spoke of himself?

    May 11, 2016 at 2:25 pm#814079
    terraricca
    Participant

    Hi N

    you seem getting lost we were talking about old prophets and at once you jump into Jesus the son of God ;

    the reality of all prophecy ;Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
    Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

    what about this one ;Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

    you seem lost for sure

    May 11, 2016 at 2:28 pm#814081
    kerwin
    Participant

    @t8,

    The Antichrist spirit denies that Jesus came in the flesh. Saying that he is the actual flesh means HE didn’t come in the flesh because he is the actual flesh.

    You are misinterpreting my use of flesh. I am using it to mean human. Jesus is the human element in the union between a human being and the Word that comes out of God’s mouth.

    John is speaking about the human soul coming in the human body. It is believed he was addressing Gnosticism. Nick has an interesting take on it a well as he believes it is the Spirit of God coming in the human being. Either are covered by the outward/inward man symbolism.

    You, yourself, admit that the word the Word is God is used to say the word has the qualities of God in John 1:1 and should see that the word is given the qualities if flesh in John 1:14. It is figurative statement but it sums up Jesus becoming the Christ.

    In short interpreting “was made” in the wrong way can cause as much misunderstanding as interpreting “flesh” in the wrong way.

    Jesus was made of a woman not of the word. You cannot have both unless they do not conflict and the way they do not conflict is flesh is made of flesh and spirit is made of Spirit.

    May 11, 2016 at 2:35 pm#814083
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    but your logic falls when looking at these scriptures ;
    Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature/form of God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!

    and also this one ;

    Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created through him and for him.
    Col 1:17 He is before all things,

    now if Jesus is before all things ;would this not mean ALL THINGS ? and so you change it for what ?

    May 11, 2016 at 3:15 pm#814090
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t,

    Do you deny Acts 3 where Jesus is called the great prophet?

    May 12, 2016 at 2:04 am#814097
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    TO ALL…THE ANTICHRISTS ARE THOSE WHO DENY, that the “CHRISTO’S’ (anointing spirit), came into the flesh man JESUS. THEY ARE ANTI-CHRISTO’S , another words they who deny the human flesh man JESUS actually recieved the anointing spirit into him. IT DOES NOT SAY THEY ARE ANTI-JESUS, but ANTICHRISTS.
    THE Gnostic’s believed and taught that Jesus came from the GODS and that he PREEXISTED AS A GOD, and was only DESCUSIED AS A HUMAN BEING and in so believing, they were denying that JESUS came into existence as a pure human being exactly as we are, and they were also denying that JESUS actually recieved the ANOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD INTO HIM AFTER HIS BERTH on this earth, MAKING THEM ANTI-CHRISTO’S, THIS teaching is exactly the same as all trinitarians teach, and even some here.

    Had they understood what Moses said and the prophets, they would have known that the “MESSIAH” HAD TO BE A “ORDINARY” HUMAN BEING, JUST LIKE MOSES WAS, AND OTHERS WHO HAD THE ANOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD ON THEM.
    WHEN the spirit came into the man Jesus, then the WORD WHO “IS” GOD, CAME INTO FLESH, the word “became” flesh, simply means came to be in flesh, not that the “WORD” WHO “IS” GOD, actually became flesh.

    He who has a ear let him hear.

    peace and love to you all, and yours. …..gene

    May 12, 2016 at 4:15 am#814098
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    I have seen no evidence the Trinirarians existed at the time John wrote those words.

    I teaching that is not the one true gospel or a precursor to it is a false teaching and therefore against Christ.

    May 12, 2016 at 9:21 am#814114
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    kerwin…..THE ‘IDOLOGY” OF A GOD, JESUS, WAS BEGINNING TO IMARGE BY THEIR TEACHINGS, ALSO THE IDEA OF A PREXISTING JESUS WAS TO.

    peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    May 12, 2016 at 10:10 am#814115
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    It could have been since the Empire had many versions of the Emperor cult and Jesus was taught to be the emperor. Hinduism or its predecessor might have been an influence as well though technically they would have influenced the Persian Empire of that time more.

    Gnosticism taught Jesus and the Holy Spirit flowed from God and thus might have had the earliest form of Trinitarianism except perhaps for the Hindus. I do not think the later’ triad included Jesus at that time but it may now.

    Gnosticism would be addressed all ready by the ideal that Jesus’ soul came in the flesh. Those teaching that have either evolved from Gnosticism or are hybrid with it take the obvious meaning of John’s words into account. Trinitarianism is one and it does take them into account. The more subtle meaning is another thing.

    I am not sure how Nick’s variation would reveal false teachers.

    May 12, 2016 at 10:14 am#814117
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    kerwin, I am pretty sure he would agree brother.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    May 12, 2016 at 10:18 am#814118
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    You conclusions about what form/nature of God means test false because God is the created of space and without space there is no body. Space is part of physical existence in it is the media upon which the physical exists. We know of three dimensions though there may be more. Some claim time is a fourth. Even if nothing physical exists the existence of space means the universe exists. If it exists then God did not create it. In short your teaching tests false because God created the heavens and the earth. End of story.

    In short God has no body of any kind.

    May 12, 2016 at 10:38 am#814119
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    I believe Colossians 1 and John 1 are related and both refer to Jesus’ position and abilities. Neither are evidence that the Christ is preexistent.

    Both of them say that as John states that he wrote his gospel to encourage believers to believe more strongly Jesus is the Christ. Paul speaks of preeminence. John the Baptist also speaks of preeminence.

    You use this and Philippians 2 because it is the best you have to prove your teaching even though they are flawed. This is as stronger one because all you have to ignore is the unwritten context of the people of that time period.

    Nick and I figured it out without that context so it can be determined with only what is written in Scripture if one is open to seeking out that message and listening to the Spirit.

    May 12, 2016 at 6:39 pm#814124
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    If the soul of Jesus came in the flesh then such was the case for every man.

    It is a nonsense idea.

     

    The man Jesus was the amazing vessel for the big deal.

    The Word was made flesh.

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