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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 19,521 through 19,540 (of 25,956 total)
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  • May 8, 2016 at 2:35 pm#813757
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin
    I am sorry I did not include all the words needed for my question to be understood. I have stated it twice before and believe both times I included all the words.
    ============================================

    just ask it again and more clearly so that my little brain can understand it

    May 8, 2016 at 2:41 pm#813758
    terraricca
    Participant

    kerwin

    t8 like you, fails to understand the unity. If he and you did not then you would come to the correct understanding of numerous passages that teach us about the unity and Jesus’s role in it. In your case it may be because you do not understand the Spirit.
    ===========================================================
    there is very little difference between me and t8 even Mike ; the difference may well lay on the background we have and the age difference and so the amount of time spend in the study ;but we will recognize a truth when we see or hear one ,this is the most important thing of all ,

    we have learn not to add or delete from scriptures ,this is true unity

    ————————————–
    In your case it may be because you do not understand the Spirit.
    ==================================================

    it is you that do not understand the spirit ;you using this word like a magic word and it is not ,many spirits are here but only one his the truth of God

    May 8, 2016 at 6:52 pm#813760
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    Some places where you add to Scripture.

    Genesis 1

    Jesus is not mentioned Genesis 1 though you want him to be there. Instead God, his word, and his Spirit are all mentioned.

    Let us refers to the Unity as it existed which is one God, one word spoken by God, one Spirit, and one body that was composed of angels.

    The presence of the angels are not mentioned in Genesis 1 but it is mentioned in Job 38:6-7.

    The word that comes out of God’s mouth was in the place Jesus would be placed in after he died, he would be made heir to that place when he came into the world, and he will step down from it after all things are done. The word is still in that place and will be in it after Jesus step down.

    In short you add Jesus to Genesis 1 to strengthen you case despite that he is not mentioned there.1

    May 9, 2016 at 1:18 am#813761
    Ed J
    Participant

    it is the scriptures that says the Jesus is THE WORD “of God not religion

    Hi Pierre,

    Produce the Scripture that says that.

    May 9, 2016 at 2:24 am#813762
    terraricca
    Participant

    Ed/K/N

    Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
    Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
    Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
    Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
    Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
    Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
    Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
    Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
    Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”

    Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
    Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
    Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

    Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
    Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”

    Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created through him and for him.
    Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

    Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
    Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature/form of God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!
    Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    Phil 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father

    Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another
    or give to God a ransom for him—
    Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly,
    no payment is ever enough—
    Ps 49:9 that he should live on forever
    and not see decay.

    Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
    Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
    Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

    Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
    Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
    Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
    Heb 2:12 He says,
    “I will declare your name to my brothers;
    in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”
    Heb 2:13 And again,
    “I will put my trust in him.”

    And again he says,
    “Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
    Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
    Heb 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
    Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
    Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
    Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

    Jn 17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

    “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
    Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

    Jn 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.

    Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
    Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
    Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

    1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
    1Jn 1:2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
    1Jn 1:3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
    1Jn 1:4 We write this to make our joy complete.

    Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
    Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    those are some of the scriptures but there are many more ;

    Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message

    I want to question you guys about what MESSAGE DO YOU FOLLOW ,FOR THE ONE I FOLLOW IS THE ONE YOU JUST READ ABOVE ,AND I DO NOT CHANGE A THING IN ANY VERSION

    but we have to admit that based on those above scriptures ;Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was (a)God.

    should be”a god” and not “GOD”

    but you can debate that scriptures are there to prove its self to you ,

    May 9, 2016 at 4:13 am#813763
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Pierre,

    I see that you’ve got nothing. I have given at least three scriptures
    that prove conclusively that “The Word” is not Jesus. But I see
    that you would rather hang onto what religion has taught.

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    May 9, 2016 at 4:29 am#813764
    terraricca
    Participant

    ED

    now I can see and all can also that you have made the scriptures a false religion and your opinions a true one ,

    so you have denied the son of God ;

    1JN 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
    1JN 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
    1JN 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
    2JN 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist AKJV

    May 9, 2016 at 6:05 am#813765
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”

    The pronoun “he” is referring to the word. The flesh it is united with at the time is a characteristic. Jesus is that flesh.

    It is a figurative narration, a beautiful picture formed from words used to symbolize ideas.

    The word that comes out of God’s mouth has been send to earth and taken on the characters of the human Jesus Christ. Feminists might want to put Jesus before the word of God by stating Jesus is the word but John’ wording place the word in the dominate position of the union. In it Jesus serves the word of God as a wife serves her husband in their marriage. In addition Jesus gives humanity to the word that bears the likeness of God.

    The order of words is important, for example “God is Love” does not mean “Love is God”.

    May 9, 2016 at 6:11 am#813766
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    Hebrews 1:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    This tells the first begotten was not worshiped by angels before God brought him into the world. So if the first begotten is Jesus and he preexisted as you claim he did not hold hold position of Lord in the unity of the Spirit.

    May 9, 2016 at 6:23 am#813767
    Ed J
    Participant

    “then “The Word” of the LORD came to me, saying” (Jer. 18:5)

    Hi Pierre,

    For what you to believe to be true, then Jer.18:5 MUST MEAN:
    .
    1. Jesus Christ came to Jeremiah the prophet
    – and –
    2. Jesus Christ spoke to Jeremiah the prophet
    .
    YOU and everybody else knows that CANNOT BE WHAT IT MEANS because of the very next verse:
    ”O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith JEHOVAH” (Jer 18:6)
    So this is enough to show what you believe is all washed up!
    .
    But of course religious brainwashing has too strong a hold on your mind for you to abandon it!
    .
    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    May 9, 2016 at 8:45 am#813772
    terraricca
    Participant

    ED
    Jer 18:1 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD?
    Jer 18:2 “Go down to the potter’s house, and there I will give you my message.”
    Jer 18:3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel.
    Jer 18:4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him
    Jer 18:5 Then the word of the LORD came to me:
    Jer 18:6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.

    Mt 28:10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”

    what is it that is so different from those scriptures ?

    you seem to declare that the 30 and more scriptures are now void just because you don’t want to understand the truth ? not so

    THE WORD was Jesus and like always he was the spokesperson for God ,always was and always will be

    it is obvious that what he says does not come from him but from the one that has sent him ;this is so simple why can you not understand it ?

    your view does not make those scriptures I showed you void ;it is your false interpretation that will kill you for you remain in your sins ,for you deny the truth

    May 9, 2016 at 8:50 am#813773
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin
    This tells the first begotten was not worshiped by angels before God brought him into the world. So if the first begotten is Jesus and he preexisted as you claim he did not hold hold position of Lord in the unity of the Spirit.
    ============================================================

    Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:AKJV

    Hebrews 1:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    can you tell me why those verses are not saying the same thing ?

    May 9, 2016 at 9:08 am#813777
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:AKJV

    He was made of a woman, who was herself the seed of David. Being made a human being he was like his brother humans made a little lower than the angels.

    Hebrews 1:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    He was made Lord of all things in heaven and earth after his resurrection.

    Looking at the wording the all the angels are instructed to give homage to them as the Heir and latter he is given the power to command him. Other Scripture makes the case he has the ability to command some angels before his resurrection though God controls which ones and how many. (Matthew 25:53)

    May 9, 2016 at 9:25 am#813779
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    He was made Lord of all things in heaven and earth after his resurrection.

    ============================================================================
    Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created through him and for him.
    Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
    Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

    1CO 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

    Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
    Eph 1:22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
    Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

    Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—
    Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

    the love of God is to serve and Jesus is a voluntary member in this way ;even in heaven this is why he came down as Paul said ;

    Jesus was under the direct supervision of God hiS FATHER since day one ;

    your denial the Christ(the WORD/Jesus) his coming from heaven is manifested in your understanding and so make your understanding false and untrue to the scriptures ;

    you are struggling to make opinions of your the interpretation for the understanding of the scriptures ? since when man are the true interpreters of the word of God ?

    May 9, 2016 at 9:27 am#813780
    kerwin
    Participant

    Terrarica,

    You are at odd with Scripture in your argument with Ed for it is written “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son…” If the word that came to Jeremiah was Jesus then these words of Hebrews are untrue. Scripture is not broken so they cannot be untrue and your idea is tested as false. Why repeat what you know in your heart is false?

    Jeremiah is just voicing the same idea that Peter does with these words.

    2 Peter 1:21Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    In short it was not Jeremiah speaking but rather the word of God speaking through him.

    There are three that testify from heaven, which are God, his word, and his Spirit. The three are united.

    May 9, 2016 at 10:23 am#813787
    terraricca
    Participant

    Kerwin

    You are at odd with Scripture in your argument with Ed for it is written “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son…” If the word that came to Jeremiah was Jesus then these words of Hebrews are untrue. Scripture is not broken so they cannot be untrue and your idea is tested as false. Why repeat what you know in your heart is false?

    Jesus came to talk to prophetes not to all men ;this was the son that was sent to Us Jesus ,

    when Jesus (the WORD) went to the prophet it was to follow up on the progression of the prophecy of the coming lamb ,

    you are mixing things up ,

    Mt 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey.
    Mt 21:34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
    Mt 21:35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
    Mt 21:36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.
    Mt 21:37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
    Mt 21:38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’
    Mt 21:39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
    Mt 21:40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

    try to understand this parable ;

    May 9, 2016 at 12:38 pm#813799
    Ed J
    Participant

    your view does not make those scriptures I showed you void ;it is your false interpretation that will kill you for you remain in your sins ,for you deny the truth

    No Pierre,

    Post #813767 proves your understanding is void.

    Our salvation is not based on our agreeing with your erroneous interpretations of Scripture!

    May 9, 2016 at 1:44 pm#813813
    terraricca
    Participant

    ED
    Our salvation is not based on our agreeing with your erroneous interpretations of Scripture!
    ===================================================================================
    1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
    1Jn 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
    1Jn 2:17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever
    .
    are you saying that not following the truth of God will bring salvation ? scriptures please

    PS;
    you haven
    ‘t proven that the scriptures i shown you are wrong ;and i did not interpret them I just show them to you ,

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Admin.
    May 9, 2016 at 2:20 pm#813823
    Ed J
    Participant

    No Pierre,

    Our salvation is not based on our agreeing with your erroneous interpretations of Scripture!

    These are your words Pierre:

    your false interpretation that will kill you for you remain in your sins

    May 9, 2016 at 2:25 pm#813825
    Ed J
    Participant

    you haven
    ‘t proven that the scriptures i shown you are wrong

    Hi Pierre,

    Funny how when me Nick or anyone else disagrees with your erroneous interpretations of Scripture,
    you instead try to deflect our words away from you and try to apply them toward Scripture.

    That tactic will not not work!

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

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