Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’. (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

This topic has 25,955 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 6 days, 23 hours ago by Keith.

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Author
Posts
April 24, 2016 at 3:40 pm#812470
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
So to be correct we must align with the Arbiter.
You.
April 24, 2016 at 3:58 pm#812475
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
It is not about me.
It is about being honest with yourself.
If you cannot stick to the words and grammar of Scripture then you are not being honest with yourself.
There is an exception and that is when translators translate the words but not the underlying grammar. The argue an issue like that it is necessary to go back to the original language. Such occasions should be rare.
Are you speaking of what I said about Revelations 19?
If so it is not guess work but rather a working model.
The words “out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations” reveal the passage is symbolic in nature. The words themselves a construct symbol of idea that is being expressed by God.
Other than that my post is a essay question posed by a student mentor.
You obviously did not test it which reveals that you fail to test the Spirit of other claims.
If you did the tests I asked then please show your work that others may benefit.
April 24, 2016 at 3:59 pm#812476
Ed J
Participant
Ed
THE WORD was a being in heaven ,the son of God ,he is the first creation of God ,this is why he as received that name for God created all things through him THE WORD ,can you not understand that ?
Hi Pierre,
Those are just your ideas – not Scriptural!
April 24, 2016 at 4:01 pm#812478
Ed J
Participant
Nick
rev;19. tell us that Jesus name is THE WORD OF GOD,
angels are also called sprits
Pierre,
Jesus name is not mentioned there
April 24, 2016 at 4:04 pm#812480
Ed J
Participant
Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
if you have the spirit of truth you should easily understand this
Pierre,
Compare that to Isaiah 63:1-10 – it should give you clarity on the matter.
________________
God bless
Ed J
April 24, 2016 at 4:06 pm#812481
kerwin
Participant
Ed,
I agree with you last post to Terrarica as the word comes out of God’s mouth. One can certainly state it was among the first of his works because he spoke the logos and all things came to be. It is his child because he sired it. English is not gender based but we can follow the traditions set by Koine Greek and refer to God’s word as he.
April 24, 2016 at 4:07 pm#812482
Ed J
Participant
Ed J,
We have discussed this and your view is irrational as you choose to ignore the pronouns used by the AV of the KJV in order to force you viewpoint into Psalm 49:6-9.
Either claim the AV of KJV is corrupt and use a version more friendly to your interpretation or change or your interpretation to be consistent with the AV of the KJV’s words.
Kerwin,
It is you that is confused and irrational
April 24, 2016 at 4:16 pm#812485
terraricca
Participant
Ed
what i said is what scriptures says and scriptures have to be add to each other but cannot be broken ,
I have given you many scriptures if you don ‘t believe them that’s your privilege of free will,
but I stand behind of what I said to be true ,
April 24, 2016 at 4:19 pm#812488
Ed J
Participant
Ed,
The term son of God is certainly misunderstood by many though it seems clear as God has not body and therefore no child of it.
Hi Kerwin,
No the many get it, it is you that misunderstands the simple term: “Son of God”
_________________
God bless
Ed J
April 24, 2016 at 4:21 pm#812490
kerwin
Participant
Ed,
Notice my post and the look at your. I pointed out why I had come to the conclusion that you are behaving irrationality. On the other hand you responded emotionally.
You did not even address the fact that Paul told Timothy that is was the human Jesus Christ that gave up his life for all.
If no human can give redeem his brother then Jesus could not redeem us.
The Av of the KJV of Psalms is correct.
April 24, 2016 at 4:24 pm#812491
terraricca
Participant
Kerwin
it was the son of man that give up his life ,the Christ ,it is obvious for Jesus the son of God being in the form of a man be called anything else than a man right ? yes
April 24, 2016 at 4:31 pm#812493
kerwin
Participant
Ed,
You make yet another claim without evidence which appears to mean you failed to actually the Spirit but instead let responded emotionally and from the flesh.
The only way Scripture declares God fathers sons is revealed with these words.
Galatians 4:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Scripture teaches us that God gave Jesus his Spirit and in doing so he fathered Jesus just as he does all his children. Going beyond that is adding to Scripture.
Matthew 12:18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
April 24, 2016 at 4:59 pm#812497
kerwin
Participant
Terrarica,
Kerwin
it was the son of man that give up his life ,the Christ ,it is obvious for Jesus the son of God being in the form of a man be called anything else than a man right ? yes
All the English language bibles translated claim it was the human Jesus Christ that gave up his life for man. Of course he also bears the title of Son of Man but that just means he is the chief son of humanity. He is also the son of God and Scripture teaches us God fathers his children by sending his Spirit into their hearts (Galatians 4:6). It also states God put his Spirit on Jesus. Jesus is his because God placed his Spirit within Jesus’ heart. Jesus is God’s chief son because God chose to appoint him as such.
There are two human genealogies of Jesus. One is most likely his mother’s and the other is his but both go through his assumed father and so confuse which is which. I think that Luke 3 speaks of Mary’s side but credits Joseph with being the son of Mary’s father because it is Mary that is bearing testimony of the early life of Jesus. In Matthew Joseph bears testimony instead and so I conclude the genology in chapter 1 is Joseph’s. Of course I could be mistake. One of those establish that Jesus origins were from the line though it could be through Solomon or through Nathan.
In conclusion Jesus’ fleshly origin are from the line of David while his Spiritual origin are from when God gave him his Spirit.
April 24, 2016 at 5:12 pm#812499
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Ed,
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.
That includes Jesus.
April 24, 2016 at 7:37 pm#812510
Ed J
Participant
Ed,
Notice my post and the look at your. I pointed out why I had come to the conclusion that you are behaving irrationality. On the other hand you responded emotionally.
You did not even address the fact that Paul told Timothy that is was the human Jesus Christ that gave up his life for all.
If no human can give redeem his brother then Jesus could not redeem us.
The Av of the KJV of Psalms is correct.
Hi Kerwin,
Psalm 49 is correct man cannot redeem his brother, but the good news is:
“The Spirit of Christ” came down “from heaven to Bethlehem” to redeem us.
You can squawk about it all you want, but that *is* what Scripture teaches.
“I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me” (John 6:38)
“Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour:
but for this cause came I unto this hour.” (John 12:27)
__________________
God bless
Ed J
April 24, 2016 at 7:42 pm#812511
Ed J
Participant
Galatians 4:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and
we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (John 14:23)
April 24, 2016 at 8:02 pm#812512
Ed J
Participant
Hi Ed,
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.
That includes Jesus.
Yes Nick,
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him
endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Heb 12:2)
_________________
God bless
Ed J
April 24, 2016 at 8:03 pm#812513
terraricca
Participant
Kerwin/Ed
before they became sons of God what were they?
April 24, 2016 at 8:06 pm#812514
Ed J
Participant
Kerwin/Ed
before they became sons of God what were they?
sinners
April 24, 2016 at 8:07 pm#812515
NickHassan
Participant
Hi t,
Apart from the angels
ordinary people.
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