Home Questions & Answers Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth? Page 68

Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

, , Questions & Answers, , , , , 25,959
Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 1,341 through 1,360 (of 25,960 total)
123…676869…1,2961,2971,298
  • Author
    Posts
  • September 25, 2008 at 12:23 am#106865
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi charity,
    God has a big father's heart for the orphan and the widow.

    Obedience to the carpenter is the way out given.

    September 25, 2008 at 12:25 am#106866
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Tim4,
    What INSTITUTION is this you speak of?
    His family is not an institution.
    Neither is the Body.

    September 25, 2008 at 12:52 am#106869
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,06:53)
    Hi Mandy,
    t8 does not mean it that way.
    He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man.
    He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal.


    That is true Mandy.

    All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable.

    When debating affects your faith to the point of unbelief then it is not profitable. As you can see, I am promoting a favorable outcome for you.

    Thanks Mandy and Nick.

    September 25, 2008 at 12:58 am#106870
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 25 2008,10:13)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,06:53)
    Hi Mandy,
    t8 does not mean it that way.
    He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man.
    He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal.


    Yes, you are probably right Nick.  Thanks.

    I'm sorry t8.  I shouldn't have assumed and then toungue lashed you like I did.  I really apologize and feel a bit embrassed that I leaped like that.  As you might imagine, I'm a bit beaten down.  Things are not going well at home, here.  I'm also frustrated with my spiritual journey (going through a mad at God phase – AGAIN).  Sorry, brother.

    Love,
    Mandy


    No probs Mandy, it is very easy to get the wrong end of the stick when you are stressed out. In the end, the best thing to do is to preserve your faith because it is faith that pleases God. Faith isn't always in line with understanding everything, but more about trusting in the one who created everything.

    September 25, 2008 at 1:15 am#106877
    Not3in1
    Participant

    t8,

    Thanks for the grace and understanding.

    Love,
    Mandy

    September 25, 2008 at 3:56 am#106915
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mandy…i believe Tim expressed best , our relationship is not with a book , but with a loving FATHER, who cares for us more then we will probably ever know.

    love and peace to you and yours………gene

    September 25, 2008 at 7:23 am#106958
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2008,15:56)
    Mandy…i believe Tim expressed best , our relationship is not with a book , but with a loving FATHER, who cares for us more then we will probably ever know.

    love and peace to you and yours………gene


    I wholeheartedly agree, Gene.

    I've been pondering Tim's post. I want to think about it some more before I reply. He and I think so much a like and have similiar experiences…..

    September 25, 2008 at 10:14 am#106971
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 23 2008,14:08)
    Adam,
    Thank you for your response.

    The Son of God is not another God that is the source of all things good.  He is the very Son of that God though, the only begotten son, God of God, and is credited with being the one who laid the foundation of the earth.
    Heb 1:8-12

    8 But of the Son He says,

    “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
    AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
    9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
    THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
    WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

    10 And,

    “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
    AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
    11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;
    AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
    12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;
    LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.
    BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,
    AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”
    NASU

    LU


    Hi sis Kathi,
    Thanks again for your patience in replying my posts.
    The scriptures you quoted from N.T are to be seen in O.T which actually talk about Father God Yahweh who created the heavens and eareth by laying foundation. Jesus was no where present at that time as per Heb 1:1;
    1 In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;
    2
    in these last days, he spoke to us through a son,…

    Son was not at all functioning in the past that is in O.T.

    I only believe that the One and Only God created this whole universe by His own word(spoken) and Spirit(His power). Unless the same word became flesh and was called Jesus 2000+ years ago we don't see Jesus earlier. Now Invisible God is visible through Jesus the man who is in the very nature and image of Him. Yet thery are different persons one is God Himself and the other is man glorified to sit with God on His throne.

    Thanks and love to you
    Adam

    September 25, 2008 at 10:51 am#106979
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,12:25)
    Hi Tim4,
    What INSTITUTION is this you speak of?
    His family is not an institution.
    Neither is the Body.


    You are absolutely correct Nick.
    Unfortunately, the physical building that we call the church has become a “for profit” institution. It is in existence solely for it's own growth.

    Tim

    September 25, 2008 at 10:54 am#106980
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I agree. It exists to feed itself.

    September 25, 2008 at 4:00 pm#106989
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi t8 and Tim,
    I go to a church, a Baptist one, and I disagree that all churches exist to feed itself. Good grief what a judgement! The church I go to reaches out to missionaries with financial support and physical support all over the world, lots of them and to each other. We have survived over two years without a senior pastor and we have not wanted for anything. God has been very good to that church. The people are good to each other as well. Yes, they hold on to the trinity doctrine but God works there inspite of that because there is a lot of love and they respect His word and are very good at making disciples who learn how to study the Bible. I have told my Sunday School teacher about some of my differences with the trinity and I have certainly not been ridiculed.

    So, my point is, there are still some awesome organized churches out there, don't give up on that concept.
    LU

    September 25, 2008 at 6:51 pm#107003
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 25 2008,19:23)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2008,15:56)
    Mandy…i believe Tim expressed best , our relationship is not with a book , but with a loving FATHER, who cares for us more then we will probably ever know.

    love and peace to you and yours………gene


    I wholeheartedly agree, Gene.

    I've been pondering Tim's post.  I want to think about it some more before I reply.  He and I think so much a like and have similiar experiences…..


    Hi Mandy,
    Fine words they offer you but are they a death sentence?
    Is that your umbilical cord they offer to cut or your lifeline?
    Are those bracelets being applied to your wrists or handcuffs?
    Is that a necklace being put around your neck or a noose?
    Is that an oxygen mask being put over your face or a pillow?

    Those who do not want you to grasp the WORD want to offer their lies instead.

    We are people of the Word, that we may be known by Jesus and His God.

    September 25, 2008 at 10:35 pm#107032
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2008,04:00)
    Hi t8 and Tim,
    I go to a church, a Baptist one, and I disagree that all churches exist to feed itself.  Good grief what a judgement!  The church I go to reaches out to missionaries with financial support and physical support all over the world, lots of them and to each other.  We have survived over two years without a senior pastor and we have not wanted for anything.  God has been very good to that church.  The people are good to each other as well.  Yes, they hold on to the trinity doctrine but God works there inspite of that because there is a lot of love and they respect His word and are very good at making disciples who learn how to study the Bible.  I have told my Sunday School teacher about some of my differences with the trinity and I have certainly not been ridiculed.

    So, my point is, there are still some awesome organized churches out there, don't give up on that concept.
    LU


    If they don't exist to feed themselves, then lets see them give everything to the poor. Follow the money. Where is most of the donations going? To the poor, infrastructure, investments? It is publicized that most denominations spend the bulk of donations and tithes on keeping themselves a float.

    Of course I am not condemning all churches. I am talking generally of the whole structure behind denominations. The structure or system is often inward looking of itself than showing concern and vision for the Body of Christ. They have their own CEO's or presidents and each seems to compete for the believers.

    The Body of Christ has Christ as the head and the members are the living stones that make up God's temple. The ministries are there to perfect the saints.

    The spiritual body is really what is important when talking about Church. The system that man creates is irrelevant in the light of the Body of Christ.

    Anyway this is another conversation that could be taken up in another discussion.

    September 25, 2008 at 10:43 pm#107033
    Worshipping Jesus
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2008,04:00)
    Hi t8 and Tim,
    I go to a church, a Baptist one, and I disagree that all churches exist to feed itself.  Good grief what a judgement!  The church I go to reaches out to missionaries with financial support and physical support all over the world, lots of them and to each other.  We have survived over two years without a senior pastor and we have not wanted for anything.  God has been very good to that church.  The people are good to each other as well.  Yes, they hold on to the trinity doctrine but God works there inspite of that because there is a lot of love and they respect His word and are very good at making disciples who learn how to study the Bible.  I have told my Sunday School teacher about some of my differences with the trinity and I have certainly not been ridiculed.

    So, my point is, there are still some awesome organized churches out there, don't give up on that concept.
    LU


    Hi LU

    I agree!

    Very often those who separate themselves from fellowship with local churches become judgmental and condemning of those who go to them.

    I was saved in a Baptist church. Yeshua set me free from drugs, and dramatically changed my life overnight.

    (How much money is a soul worth?) Not all denominations or churches are bad.

    When is the last time anybody on this sight has claimed that someone has come to Christ through their witness?

    Also, those who separate themselves and make this sight for instance their only contact with believers, often in doing so they take on elitist attitudes like the ones they condemn for claiming they have the only truth.

    So while they preach against the division in the churches they end up being the ones that divide.

    The scriptures say…

    And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: “for he that is not against us is for us“.  Luke 9:49, 50

    WJ

    September 25, 2008 at 10:51 pm#107034
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 26 2008,06:51)
    Those who do not want you to grasp the WORD want to offer their lies instead.


    Hi Nick,

    A lie is a deception with the intent to decieve others.
    I have no such intent.
    Where can you show that I have lied?
    The only statement that I made other than about my relationship with God was that I felt that we were supposed to have a relationship with God and not with the book.

    Could it be that you believe that we are supposed to have a relationship with the book and not God?

    Tim

    September 25, 2008 at 10:52 pm#107035
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi WJ,
    Those of the world who are not against us are for us in God's eyes.
    But those among us in Christ who are not with us are against us.

    September 25, 2008 at 11:05 pm#107037
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2008,04:00)
    Hi t8 and Tim,
    I go to a church, a Baptist one, and I disagree that all churches exist to feed itself.  Good grief what a judgement!  The church I go to reaches out to missionaries with financial support and physical support all over the world, lots of them and to each other.  We have survived over two years without a senior pastor and we have not wanted for anything.  God has been very good to that church.  The people are good to each other as well.  Yes, they hold on to the trinity doctrine but God works there inspite of that because there is a lot of love and they respect His word and are very good at making disciples who learn how to study the Bible.  I have told my Sunday School teacher about some of my differences with the trinity and I have certainly not been ridiculed.

    So, my point is, there are still some awesome organized churches out there, don't give up on that concept.
    LU


    Hi LU,

    That is wonderful that you have found a church that may truly be doing the work of God. But I maintain that is an exception and not the rule.

    I attend a church as well. I love the pastor and most of the entire congregation. I support this church financially as well as with my time.
    I know what our budget is. 90% of all that is taken in goes to sustaining the church. The church then tithes 10% for missions, and charities outside of the church. Most churches operate this same way.
    We have put on a large new addition to the building that we did not need. We built a new parking lot that we did not need.
    But all of the calls for more money was “to do God's work.”

    The simple fact is that I would have rather given that money to a food kitchen for the poor, or a shelter for battered women. That, in my opinion, is God's work.

    If more churches worked the way that yours appears to LU,
    I would be much happier. I thik that GOd would as well.

    Tim

    September 25, 2008 at 11:15 pm#107040
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    In the body of Christ those who do not unite in his truth, divide and scatter.

    Matthew 12:30
    He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    Luke 11:23
    He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

    The scattering is by the wolves among the flock.

    John 10:12
    But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

    September 25, 2008 at 11:16 pm#107041
    Worshipping Jesus
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 26 2008,10:35)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2008,04:00)
    Hi t8 and Tim,
    I go to a church, a Baptist one, and I disagree that all churches exist to feed itself.  Good grief what a judgement!  The church I go to reaches out to missionaries with financial support and physical support all over the world, lots of them and to each other.  We have survived over two years without a senior pastor and we have not wanted for anything.  God has been very good to that church.  The people are good to each other as well.  Yes, they hold on to the trinity doctrine but God works there inspite of that because there is a lot of love and they respect His word and are very good at making disciples who learn how to study the Bible.  I have told my Sunday School teacher about some of my differences with the trinity and I have certainly not been ridiculed.

    So, my point is, there are still some awesome organized churches out there, don't give up on that concept.
    LU


    If they don't exist to feed themselves, then lets see them give everything to the poor. Follow the money. Where is most of the donations going? To the poor, infrastructure, investments? It is publicized that most denominations spend the bulk of donations and tithes on keeping themselves a float.

    Of course I am not condemning all churches. I am talking generally of the whole structure behind denominations. The structure or system is often inward looking of itself than showing concern and vision for the Body of Christ. They have their own CEO's or presidents and each seems to compete for the believers.

    The Body of Christ has Christ as the head and the members are the living stones that make up God's temple. The ministries are there to perfect the saints.

    The spiritual body is really what is important when talking about Church. The system that man creates is irrelevant in the light of the Body of Christ.

    Anyway this is another conversation that could be taken up in another discussion.

    Hi t8

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 26 2008,10:35)

    If they don't exist to feed themselves, then lets see them give everything to the poor. Follow the money.

    Ok and if they did give everything to the poor then they would be poor.

    So why don't you sell everything and give it to the poor?

    How can you make such a broad judgment of churches yoiu do not even go to?

    The churches have money because God's people “willingly” give it.

    Yeshua never discouraged men from giving to the synogogues but in fact pointed out how the widow gave more than all the rest.

    In the NT the believers all sold everything they had and distributed it evenly among themselves.

    I think those participating in local churches are closer to the to the NT church than those who do not go at all. Most do not give at all.

    Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approaching. Heb 10:25

    WJ

    September 25, 2008 at 11:22 pm#107046
    Worshipping Jesus
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 26 2008,11:15)
    Hi,

    In the body of Christ those who do not unite in his truth, divide and scatter.

    Matthew 12:30
    He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    Luke 11:23
    He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

    The scattering is by the wolves among the flock.

    John 10:12
    But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.


    NH

    And so how do we know you are not the wolf?

    Anybody can claim wolf, wolf. The question is what makes you think you are in the truth and those who dont agree with you are not?

    Jesus said those who are not with us are against us. So are yoiu with us?  ???

    See what I mean?

    WJ

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 20 posts - 1,341 through 1,360 (of 25,960 total)
123…676869…1,2961,2971,298
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

 

CREATE NEW TOPIC
POPULAR TOPICS
ACTIVE TOPICS
SITE SEARCH
SUPPORT US
REGISTER
ALL REPLIES →

© 1999 - 2025 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2025 - Heaven Net

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

Create Account