Home Questions & Answers Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth? Page 67

Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

, , Questions & Answers, , , , , 25,959
Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 1,321 through 1,340 (of 25,960 total)
123…666768…1,2961,2971,298
  • Author
    Posts
  • September 24, 2008 at 7:17 am#106761
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Sep. 24 2008,19:13)
    We know some people will allow Satan to blind their minds so that they don't see the truth about Christ.

    2 CORINTHIANS 4:4
    “among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.”

    The truth is, it takes work and effort to dig for these things (Prov 1), and some people aren't into that.
    They give up.


    Two words come to mind: bite me. Forgive me, but your arrogant attitude is too much sometimes.

    David, I have studied for 5 years!!! When I say “studied” I'm not talking casually. I'm talking for 5 to 6 hours A DAY!!!!

    It does take effort to dig and dig and dig……massive amounts of effort.

    Please don't think you're the only one doing this. Other's also want to know the truth and seek it out. The journey is long and tiring…..

    September 24, 2008 at 7:20 am#106763
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    David, I have studied for 5 years!!! When I say “studied” I'm not talking casually. I'm talking for 5 to 6 hours A DAY!!!!

    Might I suggest 10?

    (Just joking.)
    I know, putting that scripture out there was not cool. But it is extremely frustrating for me when someone believes something but isn't willing to discuss it, and seems unwilling to look at it.

    September 24, 2008 at 7:25 am#106766
    Not3in1
    Participant

    I've looked at it. Too many times. I've heard you and a zillion other's give their expert opinions…….all different opinons!! This is why I don't bother looking at it.

    I'm frustrating you and becoming too tired to continue on politely. 😉 So I better head to bed.

    Mandy

    September 24, 2008 at 7:36 am#106770
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    I've looked at it. Too many times. I've heard you and a zillion other's give their expert opinions…….all different opinons!! This is why I don't bother looking at it.

    Well, there's not a zillion opinions. There's a couple.
    –Jesus pre-existed. He pre-existed as a plan/thought. He didn't pre-exist.

    And, it's probably pretty important to figure out. (John 17:3)

    So giving up isn't the right course.

    A great place to begin would be with what the scripture says. That's where I was trying to start.

    I'm sorry if I upset you.

    September 24, 2008 at 8:20 am#106772
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 24 2008,19:01)
    That's exactly the problem, Irene.  I'm losing faith in “what is written”.  Not losing faith in God, but in the written Word (not to be confused with the living Word).

    That's why I say it's useless and challenging to debate it any further.


    That is fair enough for you to make that choice. Seems pointless for you to be debating in the Scripture & Biblical Doctrine as you say.

    September 24, 2008 at 8:24 am#106773
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (charity @ Sep. 24 2008,19:06)

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2008,10:21)

    Quote (charity @ Sep. 23 2008,17:35)
    Pro 8:1¶Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
    She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
    She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
    Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice [is] to the sons of man.

    For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
    I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

    when he created a new thing a compass
    Pro 8:27   When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

    perhaps Mary did more for Jesus, than what meets the eye. :D


    I would say that this is probably so. Jesus was discipled by his Heavenly Father, but his mother and earthly father would surely have had a huge impact in his life. I know that my mother had a huge impact in my life. A lot of what I am today is because of her.

    As for wisdom, you rightly talk of wisdom as a characteristic or quality.

    Just as truth is also a quality or characteristic, Jesus said “I am the truth”. In the same way he is wisdom. Of course Jesus being the Truth and Wisdom, doesn't negate the fact that these are still attributes of God.

    Tatian put it like this around (165 A.D):
    And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.


    :D

    I love Mickey Mouse more than any woman I have ever known.
    –Walt Disney

    I guess straight after he said that! he tucked Micky in and went home to no Dinner, went to sleep and got up a created Mini -charity

    Luv ya t8

    :laugh:


    Well I can say that if it wasn't for my wife, I would certainly lack a great deal. She makes up for many of my faults. She is my short term memory for a start.

    Hmmmm. Well I guess that Walter Disney became extremely rich and could afford to pay for someone to tuck him in at night.

    :D

    September 24, 2008 at 5:33 pm#106802
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 24 2008,20:20)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 24 2008,19:01)
    That's exactly the problem, Irene.  I'm losing faith in “what is written”.  Not losing faith in God, but in the written Word (not to be confused with the living Word).

    That's why I say it's useless and challenging to debate it any further.


    That is fair enough for you to make that choice. Seems pointless for you to be debating in the Scripture & Biblical Doctrine as you say.


    Kind of a snide comment snuck in there, don't you think? Would you rather I not contribute here in the Scripture and Biblical Doctrine threads? Is all debate then? Is there nothing else to contribute but arguments against your brother's? If so, then you are correct and I should take a hike.

    However I believe that there are other contributions that also are worthwhile. Causing other's to think about their view or perhaps even another more liberal view is valuable. One doesn't need to debate to cause other's to ponder a different idea concerning their own ideas.

    Perhaps I'm wrong altogether. I know that you (like David and some other's) like to herd folks into a corner. Into a set of belief's. Either they are wrong or they are right (if they agree with you). You have said that you are open in the past, but I have not seen that here. You are definitely teaching with an agenda. Seperating out who is a “believer” and who is a “non-believer” was the beginning of the evidence there.

    I appreciate this site for other reasons than debate. I know some may find that hard to believe, but I do. I read a lot of back posts and have learned a great deal about other's beliefs. It's helped me have a better view of the world and other's. This site has given me tolerance and a love for those who don't believe like me. Anyway, I'm rambling….

    I guess I'll keep my mouth shut more. It is possible. 😉

    Thanks,
    Mandy

    September 24, 2008 at 6:53 pm#106825
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Mandy,
    t8 does not mean it that way.
    He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man.
    He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal.

    September 24, 2008 at 8:39 pm#106831
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 24 2008,19:17)
    Two words come to mind:  bite me.  Forgive me, but your arrogant attitude is too much sometimes.

    David, I have studied for 5 years!!!  When I say “studied” I'm not talking casually.  I'm talking for 5 to 6 hours A DAY!!!!

    It does take effort to dig and dig and dig……massive amounts of effort.  

    Please don't think you're the only one doing this.  Other's also want to know the truth and seek it out.  The journey is long and tiring…..


    Hi Mandy,

    That has been one of my greatest frustrations.
    I too have studied many hours a day. Not casual reading, but
    intense study. I have prayed for the Spirit to be with me
    and help me to understand.

    I haven't enjoyed that help. Could it be that God doesn't want me. If God wanted people to read and learn from His word, why would He have made it so difficult to comprehend? I know that Nick and others have said that it isn't confusing at all if the Spirit is leading you.
    But they are wrong, at the same time their understanding is different than someone elses understanding that is being led by the same Spirit.

    I feel for your frustration. People who are dillusioned in to believing that they have the only correct understanding, have no empathy for what you are going through.

    Tim

    September 24, 2008 at 10:02 pm#106833
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Tim4,
    Praying for you.
    Cruise it, let the Spirit take you in the flow bro.

    Love it, read it, let it teach.

    September 24, 2008 at 10:13 pm#106836
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,06:53)
    Hi Mandy,
    t8 does not mean it that way.
    He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man.
    He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal.


    Yes, you are probably right Nick. Thanks.

    I'm sorry t8. I shouldn't have assumed and then toungue lashed you like I did. I really apologize and feel a bit embrassed that I leaped like that. As you might imagine, I'm a bit beaten down. Things are not going well at home, here. I'm also frustrated with my spiritual journey (going through a mad at God phase – AGAIN). Sorry, brother.

    Love,
    Mandy

    September 24, 2008 at 10:45 pm#106847
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Tim,

    Sigh……..breath in through the nose, out through the mouth (I'm talking to myself here). :;):

    I am comforted that I am not alone in my doubts and in my questions. While I don't wish this place of indecision on anyone, it's nice to know you are standing next to me.

    Maybe “indecision” is the wrong word? But I'm not sure what other word would fit just now….

    There is a feeling of freedom when I let go of the trappings of Christianity. There is also a tug of fear that says, “Wait, Mandy. Wait. Not so fast. Uh, listen-in some more and don't make any hasty decisions.” And so I'm learning to wait. But nothings happening and I don't “hear” anything either. I'm beginning to wonder if God only talks to those who talk to him? Like you, I'm beginning to wonder if he wants me at all and is more happily contented with the likes of those who never question.

    But question, I must.

    Not all who wonder are lost. Tolkien.

    Take care, Tim
    Love,
    Mandy

    September 24, 2008 at 10:49 pm#106848
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,10:02)
    Hi Tim4,
    Praying for you.
    Cruise it, let the Spirit take you in the flow bro.

    Love it, read it, let it teach.


    Hi Nick, If one has a father, he should consider not lifting the old Land mark set in place for the Fatherless, that they have a strong redeemer, and he shall plead their case against adversary.

    yet John removes anyway, He has not offered charity to anyone that dose not agree with his interruption, I beseech thee  not to brace his attitude, that is leading the earth to actions of intolerance, again we have the war of the gods?
    unto sounding cymbals, where prophecy to end with charity, the Law that sayeth finish the Law that followeth the Law.

    Addressed to the congregation of self righteousness.
    Pro 23:8The morsel [which] thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
    Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:
    For their redeemer [is] mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.

    And the father of the fatherless is God, because he is a good God, and created every soul worthy of this earth.
    Psa 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, [is] God in his holy habitation.

    September 24, 2008 at 10:56 pm#106850
    Worshipping Jesus
    Participant

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 25 2008,10:13)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,06:53)
    Hi Mandy,
    t8 does not mean it that way.
    He is by nature a very kind, gentle and considerate man.
    He was agreeing with you that withdrawing from the difficult threads may help you heal.


    Yes, you are probably right Nick.  Thanks.

    I'm sorry t8.  I shouldn't have assumed and then toungue lashed you like I did.  I really apologize and feel a bit embrassed that I leaped like that.  As you might imagine, I'm a bit beaten down.  Things are not going well at home, here.  I'm also frustrated with my spiritual journey (going through a mad at God phase – AGAIN).  Sorry, brother.

    Love,
    Mandy


    Hi Mandy and Tim

    Praying for you!

    Love in Christ!

    WJ

    September 24, 2008 at 11:05 pm#106851
    Tiffany
    Participant

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 25 2008,10:45)
    Tim,

    Sigh……..breath in through the nose, out through the mouth (I'm talking to myself here).  :;):

    I am comforted that I am not alone in my doubts and in my questions.  While I don't wish this place of indecision on anyone, it's nice to know you are standing next to me.

    Maybe “indecision” is the wrong word?  But I'm not sure what other word would fit just now….

    There is a feeling of freedom when I let go of the trappings of Christianity.  There is also a tug of fear that says, “Wait, Mandy.  Wait.  Not so fast.  Uh, listen-in some more and don't make any hasty decisions.”  And so I'm learning to wait.  But nothings happening and I don't “hear” anything either.  I'm beginning to wonder if God only talks to those who talk to him?  Like you, I'm beginning to wonder if he wants me at all and is more happily contented with the likes of those who never question.

    But question, I must.  

    Not all who wonder are lost.  Tolkien.  

    Take care, Tim
    Love,
    Mandy


    Mandy! May God be with YOU, HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH.

    Peace and Love Irene

    P.S. Georg has a very good article in His new Book it is very long and I don't want to paste it here. If you are interested let me know and I will make a new tread with it.

    September 24, 2008 at 11:18 pm#106854
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi charity,
    Let John unravel the Word for you.
    He is blessed with deep loving wisdom.

    September 24, 2008 at 11:21 pm#106855
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    HI Nick and worshippingJesus,

    Thank you for your prayers.

    Tim

    September 24, 2008 at 11:40 pm#106860
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,11:18)
    Hi charity,
    Let John unravel the Word for you.
    He is blessed with deep loving wisdom.


    :D yes he has made it perfectly clear.

    Jhn 8:44   Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    Least all men alike  perish both sinner, and those without understanding to depart, where the soul is out of reach from any human intervention, that opresseth, where souls are the possession of God, whom shall redeem as he pleases, and that, To God alone, Psa 10:18 judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.
    It Is a shame to Men, that souls are made to Live Life in hell  , only to depart to obtain mercy, and rest, with the hope they have in a powerful God.

    How Long before the earth can see thru the spit and mud John plasters over the eyes of creation?

    September 24, 2008 at 11:53 pm#106861
    Worshipping Jesus
    Participant

    Quote (charity @ Sep. 25 2008,11:40)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 25 2008,11:18)
    Hi charity,
    Let John unravel the Word for you.
    He is blessed with deep loving wisdom.


    :D yes he has made it perfectly clear.

    Jhn 8:44   Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    Least all men alike  perish both sinner, and those without understanding to depart, where the soul is out of reach from any human intervention, that opresseth, where souls are the possession of God, whom shall redeem as he pleases, and that, To God alone, Psa 10:18 judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.
    It Is a shame to Men, that souls are made to Live Life in hell  , only to depart to obtain mercy, and rest, with the hope they have in a powerful God.

    How Long before the earth can see thru the spit and mud John plasters over the eyes of creation?


    Hi Charity

    Good analogy!
    It was the spit and mud of Yeshua that healed the blind man and opened his eyes to see!   :)

    WJ

    September 25, 2008 at 12:00 am#106862
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    Hi Mandy,

    You said “But nothings happening and I don't “hear” anything either. I'm beginning to wonder if God only talks to those who talk to him? Like you, I'm beginning to wonder if he wants me at all and is more happily contented with the likes of those who never question.”

    The strange thing is that I do seem to hear God communicating with me, but not through the bible. The bible is chock full of things that you must do for God to like you. There are rituals that you must learn and rules that you must remember. But it is almost like God wants for me to know Him without getting caught up in all the printed words. My relationship with the God that I know seems to want a pure free relationship without all the chains and bindings that the bible teaches.

    Remember my testimonial about the ordeal with my wife’s coma. I named a number of times that I was driven to do one thing or another. I am convinced that was God working in my life.
    God even talked to me. Not a booming voice like Moses or Noah heard, but through a short out of place piece on the television in answer to a question looming in my mind at the time.

    The bible is the holy word of God to many Christians. These Christians revere it’s pages and almost seem to worship the object itself. I think that the bible has a place in God’s plan.
    It, along with the institution of the church, without a doubt are instrumental in bringing many people to a spiritual understanding of sorts. I just feel as if God wants us to go beyond what the bible teaches and really find Him.

    I feel the presence God around me when I am walking across my wooded landscape. I know that God tugs at my heart when there is someone in need. I thank God for every new beautiful day that He has given me, and He gives me yet another. I pray to God for the needs of other’s, and I feel God comfort me. Why then I must ask you, do I sense God’s absence when I am studying the bible?
    To me it is truly like God wants for me to see the flaws in the personification of Himself in the pages of the bible.

    I continue to read the responses of people on this forum to see if perhaps I may receive some spark of new understanding. If I do not, I have become comfortable with where I am in my spiritual journey at the moment. I love and appreciate the concern shown by most everyone here. I would never in a thousand years try to change their understanding of scriptures if that understanding brings them comfort. I am not a teacher, I am a listener.

    Love,

    Tim

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 20 posts - 1,321 through 1,340 (of 25,960 total)
123…666768…1,2961,2971,298
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

 

CREATE NEW TOPIC
POPULAR TOPICS
ACTIVE TOPICS
SITE SEARCH
SUPPORT US
REGISTER
ALL REPLIES →

© 1999 - 2025 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2025 - Heaven Net

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

Create Account