Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 801 through 820 (of 25,960 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #100462
    gsilva72
    Participant

    Hi GB,

    Where are you getting the definition for elohim. Also, the word God means supreme being. :)

    #100464
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 06 2008,16:31)
    Hi Mandy,
    Thanks for bumping. Of course you might have meant it for Pulivarthy, he is my friend from India a believer of Trinity.

    I want the attention of brother Nick on Jn 1:1
    If he believes the 'word' was another apart from the person God then he is making two Gods in the beginning.

    Love to you
    Adam


    Hi Adam,

    Thanks for inviting your friend to the site! It will be nice to see his viewpoint and get to know him.

    I think I may have chatted with him earlier and thought he believed in the Oneness doctrine?

    Mandy

    #100482
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,

    You say
    “Nick…….the word Elohim simple means (POWERS) a plural form of Power anyone with powers can be considered an elohim as Jesus plainly said they were gods, But the word Lord God is different, the word Lord (His exists) and GOD means HE who EXISTS with POWERS. He is the ONE AND (ONLY) TRUE GOD> “

    So what are these principalities and POWERS in scripture?
    Seems rather they are beings on high with evil influence over men.

    Romans 8:38
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    Ephesians 3:10
    To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    Ephesians 6:12
    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Colossians 1:16
    For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Colossians 2:15
    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    #100488
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick……whats your point ?

    #100499
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    Just further clarifying scripture.

    #100503
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick……..Are we talking about the Word Power meaning Elohim or Just that powers can even infer demoniacs of some kind. This might help, when Jesus up breaded the Pharisees by saying they were gods, He was referencing a scripture in Plasm where The elders of Israel were being scolded for not doing there Job as rulers of Israel they were in GOD stead and were given the power by God and they were supposed to have ruled in God's behalf with His judgments and that was the same thing the Pharisees were supposed to have done at the time of Christ. I don't think we are not in agreement on the word but i am not sure.

    peace………gene

    #100505
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    There is a satanic kingdom and natural men are affected by the god of this world.
    Clearly there are spiritual beings on high under satan that are powerful and strongly influence the thoughts and behaviours of men on earth. Their demonic underlings are their earthly minions within man and Jesus came to set men free to instead serve the One true God.

    #100509
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick….so Jesus came to set men free from demonic influences from out side forces and not from their own evil influences with in them. But Jesus called them Evil, saying if you being Evil know how to give good gifts, etc, I believe Jesus came to set men free from their own sinful matures not some out side force causing them to sin. The general state of man is contrary to God is not subject to his laws neither can be just as it says. The adversaries are us not some unknown forces jumping in and out of people, men are held accountable for their sin not some one else.

    Devils, demons, Satan's are all products of Mythology of pagan origins and everything the people at the time of Christ which they couldn't explain they attributed to some form of demons or devils and stems all the way back to the ancient Egyptians, who worshiped demonic powers in the pagan religions.

    #100510
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    Is there any record of Jesus casting out the evil natures of men?
    There is of his work against the demonic spirits.

    Again I ask you was Jesus influenced by pagan mythology or was he the TRUTH?

    #100513
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick……Jesus dealt with people on their level of thinking, These people only understood their term and language, to them when a person had a epileptic attack they thought it was a demon when in fact it was not. You need to realize they did not know any better, You don't see people going around saying people are having demons jump in and out of them now days, science and medicine has come a long way sense those days. Multiple personalities disorders are not demonic influences taking over people but real mental illness that effect there lives. Attributing man Evil to a Devil and demons is just an excuse to justify our own Evil behavior a cop out if you will.Terms like the devil made me do it is false it was our own lusts and desires that made us do it, and needs to be repented of. We are ALL held accountable Just like Jesus held Peter and Judas accountable for what they did.We are not told to God to God and ask to be forgiven what “Satan” caused us to do, but what we ourselves did. imo

    #100515
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    So the TRUTH spoke myths and legends to those who could only cope at that level??

    So his words are not truth everlasting?

    Matthew 24:35
    ” Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    Mark 13:31
    “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    Luke 21:33
    ” Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    #100518
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick…..I know what you are saying but you need to understand Jesus spoke on there level, so they could understand, TO them who believed demons had taken over a person it was like they were removed when GOD healed them. If i were or could walk into a mental institution today and God were to heal everyone in there not one person would think that God drove out demons, they would think God heal them of a mental disorder, Why because Knowledge has greatly increased as scripture said it would, and we need to adjust to that knowledge also. Scripture was written with the knowledge of that time and the mentality of that time we have to always remember that. There has been a lot of truth discovered sense then. imo

    #100521
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gb,
    So cultural context was what ruled Jesus and he cast out demons in the context that he found them?
    But such forces no longer exist for the great physician to cure?

    #100557
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi brothers I think you slightly deviated from the Topic “John 1:1”.

    Please come back.
    Thanks
    Adam

    #100604
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Adam…. your right, John 1:1, if read (EXACTLY) as written without changing any letters by capitalizing some and not capitalizing other and not putting any preconceived ideologies into the wording and excepting the word for there direct meaning will, come out that the word (expressed Intellect) was with and was God himself.

    love and peace brother to you and yours…………gene

    #100616
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    You have just done exactly what you advised against.
    You just inserted the word INTELLECT.

    #100652
    pulivarthy
    Participant

    hi nick & GB,
    it is neither intellect nor mind.before creation it was the name(identification) of God, as I am identified by name.Naming of Adam also was given by God and we learned importance of word and languages through God.Therefore , Word means ,it could be name of God 'I am ” or 'Jehova” which was the source of evrery thing.
    pulivarthy sarath babu(PSB)

    #100688
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2008,06:24)
    Hi GB,
    You have just done exactly what you advised against.
    You just inserted the word INTELLECT.


    Nick…..I did not change anything a WORD is the expression of ones intellect, thats how we communicate right, i did not change anything i simple gave its meaning as all words have meaning, or they are just gibberish right, A word Is the expression of ones intellect and you full well know that. Lets not try to be contrary with each other for just the sake of being contrary brother.

    peace to you…….gene

    #100706
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,
    I cannot find “intellect” in scripture.
    Why add to scripture?

    #100710
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,
    Eph 1
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    So God chose us to be in the BELOVED.
    We are not the same as him though as he was loved and not just chosen.

    Matthew 12:18
    Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    We are loved by God in Christ but only he can say he was loved before the foundation of the world, whemn he had glory with God.

    Jn17
    23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Viewing 20 posts - 801 through 820 (of 25,960 total)
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