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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 761 through 780 (of 25,960 total)
123…383940…1,2961,2971,298
  • Author
    Posts
  • June 19, 2008 at 8:38 am#93413
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Please see the Greek, it says “God was the word”

    June 19, 2008 at 8:57 am#93414
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gm,
    Can our God be an expression of our God?

    June 19, 2008 at 9:06 am#93415
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Then who was the God that was with the Word?

    June 19, 2008 at 9:07 am#93416
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    “God is love”, “God is Spirit”, “God is wisdom” all these words are available in the Bible which only express His attributes not that God is only all love or all Spirit or all wisdom or all word. IMO

    June 19, 2008 at 9:31 am#93417
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    I agree.

    God is no form of His expression.
    He is not an image or any of His words
    So our God was not the WORD spoken of in 1Jn.

    June 19, 2008 at 9:37 am#93418
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    God does all things by His commanding words.
    He says and it happens.

    His way of communicating with men to is by His words.
    One with Him in the beginning was the ultimate mouthpiece of Himself to men.

    God calls him the Word.
    John testified that he had met him.

    1Jn1
    1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

    2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

    June 19, 2008 at 1:53 pm#93421
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    1.you say “His way of communicating with men to is by His words.
    One with Him in the beginning was the ultimate mouthpiece of Himself to men”.

    Where is the proof for this and who was the being acted as mouthpiece of God in O.T?

    2.Also “God calls him the Word.John testified that he had met him”

    When did John met him; during Jesus earthly ministry or before?

    John was talking about “word of life” in 1 Jn1:1-2, it's nothing but God's own word how can he see this “word of life” as a person before his own birth forget about Jesus' preexistence?

    In this context I only believe Is 55:8-11

    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
    9 As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.
    10 For just as from the heavens the rain and snow come down And do not return there till they have watered the earth, making it fertile and fruitful, Giving seed to him who sows and bread to him who eats,
    11 So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; It shall not return to me void, but shall do my will, achieving the end for which I sent it”

    That is what Jesus became to fulfill the very purpose of God what was intended by God Himself. Other than this I think every thing will be mere speculation.
    Peace to you
    Adam

    June 19, 2008 at 2:13 pm#93425
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Gollamudi….Jesus said the (words) i am telling you are (Spirit and Life) he also said GOD is SPIRIT, So the Word was God as stated in John 1:1. Jesus was manifested and God was in Him, So then The Word was also because the Word who is (GOD) was in Him, but He plainly said in 10 or 12 different places the words were (NOT) HIS. He spoke (GOD”S WORDS) TO US. God was in Him via the WORD, that was God in HIM. And God is in us by those same words that were in Jesus, and those words are SPIRIT, and LIFE>

    Peace to you…………gene
    It's so simple it amazes me why people can't get it, and you don't have to change the meaning of the text, just read it and accept it as it reads.

    June 19, 2008 at 7:12 pm#93493
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,01:53)
    Hi Nick,
    1.you say “His way of communicating with men to is by His words.
    One with Him in the beginning was the ultimate mouthpiece of Himself to men”.

    Where is the proof for this and who was the being acted as mouthpiece of God in O.T?

    2.Also “God calls him the Word.John testified that he had met him”

    When did John met him; during Jesus earthly ministry or before?

    John was talking about “word of life” in 1 Jn1:1-2, it's nothing but God's own word how can he see this “word of life” as a person before his own birth forget about Jesus' preexistence?

    In this context I only believe Is 55:8-11

    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
    9 As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.
    10 For just as from the heavens the rain and snow come down And do not return there till they have watered the earth, making it fertile and fruitful, Giving seed to him who sows and bread to him who eats,
    11 So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; It shall not return to me void, but shall do my will, achieving the end for which I sent it”

    That is what Jesus became to fulfill the very purpose of God what was intended by God Himself. Other than this I think every thing will be mere speculation.
    Peace to you
    Adam


    Hi GM,
    You ask
    Where is the proof for this and who was the being acted as mouthpiece of God in O.T?

    Try Heb1
    1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

    June 19, 2008 at 7:14 pm#93494
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    John met him on earth.
    John did not see God's words.
    He saw his glory on the mountain.

    June 20, 2008 at 1:36 am#93565
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    Then where is the question of Logos existing as person before Jesus' birth (on this earth). John saw Jesus' coming glory on the mountain in a vision not literally. Did Jesus had glory before his resurrection if he was praying ” Father, now the time has come to glorify thy son..”? (Jn 17:1-2).
    These are peoples' speculations as I have already told.
    Adam

    June 20, 2008 at 1:44 am#93566
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Did they all share the same vision?
    How odd.

    June 20, 2008 at 1:59 am#93578
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hello! brother,
    What is this question about?

    June 20, 2008 at 2:02 am#93580
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

    2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

    4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

    5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    6And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

    7And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

    8And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

    9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

    Visions are generally not a shared experience like apparitions.
    The word VISION here also means what they SAW

    June 20, 2008 at 2:25 am#93592
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Then you answer my question that I have put you earlier, why Jesus was praying to Father for giving glory and “now the time has come to glorify thy son” if he was already in glory?

    June 20, 2008 at 2:49 am#93607
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    He had glory.
    He emptied himself and came.
    Peter testified God gave him glory on the mountain.

    2Peter1
    16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

    17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

    But before his death he prayed for the glory he had with God again.

    Jn17
    1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

    2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    June 20, 2008 at 7:38 am#93644
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    Simply quoting verses anybody can do but explain and answer my question above.

    June 20, 2008 at 8:34 am#93648
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gm,
    He was seen in glory on the mountain only.

    June 20, 2008 at 8:46 am#93653
    gollamudi
    Participant

    OK that's better way to come out of situation.

    June 24, 2008 at 5:47 am#93883
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Let's come back to the Topic ” Logos”.

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