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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 741 through 760 (of 25,960 total)
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  • Author
    Posts
  • September 1, 2007 at 4:37 am#65178
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 01 2007,06:54)
    The more and more I read John 1, the less I see a pre-existant being. Are we truly to take the OT passages that speak of the “word of YHWH” and see some being flitting around, carrying out God's actions? John 1 is a simple summarization of the creation narrative: God spoke and things came to be. God spoke and a Savior was born; it was God's plan to save mankind through His only begotten Son.

    What confuses the issue with John 1 is the translation of the Greek word “autos” as “him”. This word can mean “he, she, or it”, “him, her, or it”. Yet the translators used “him” with no real reason to do so other than popular opinion. Can a “logos” — a “word” — truly be a “him”? Can somone show me where a “logos” was a “him” outside of John 1?


    Kejonn…….> I see it that way also the word is an atribute God Himself. And does not refer to Jesus at all or infer that Jesus preexisted either, John 1.1 is simply saying that in the Begining was the word (intellegent uterance) and it was with God and was God.(his atribute which is part of Him) it was in the Beginning. And this intellegence is what inlightens every man that comes into the world.
    I do not believe Jesus preexisted either, but was foreordained like Peter said and then He was Manifisted (or brought into existence ) in our time, Just like Peter said. peace to you brother……gene

    September 1, 2007 at 11:17 am#65181
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2007,16:37)

    Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 01 2007,06:54)
    The more and more I read John 1, the less I see a pre-existant being. Are we truly to take the OT passages that speak of the “word of YHWH” and see some being flitting around, carrying out God's actions? John 1 is a simple summarization of the creation narrative: God spoke and things came to be. God spoke and a Savior was born; it was God's plan to save mankind through His only begotten Son.

    What confuses the issue with John 1 is the translation of the Greek word “autos” as “him”. This word can mean “he, she, or it”, “him, her, or it”. Yet the translators used “him” with no real reason to do so other than popular opinion. Can a “logos” — a “word” — truly be a “him”? Can somone show me where a “logos” was a “him” outside of John 1?


    Kejonn…….> I see it that way also the word is an atribute God Himself. And does not refer to Jesus at all or infer that Jesus preexisted either, John 1.1 is simply saying that in the Begining was the word (intellegent uterance) and it was with God and was God.(his atribute which is part of Him) it was in the Beginning. And this intellegence is what inlightens every man that comes into the world.
    I do not believe Jesus preexisted either, but was foreordained like  Peter said and then He was Manifisted (or brought into existence ) in our time, Just like Peter said. peace to you brother……gene


    I agree.
    John 1 has been a struggle for me for some time.
    I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is not even mentioned until John 1:4.

    John 1:1 thru John 1:3 were all talking about God Himself.
    Then in John 1:4 Jesus is mentioned.
    Jhn 1:4
    In him (God) was life; and the life was the light of men.
    In God was the life that was the light of man. That life, the light of man, which He would eventually send to earth was Jesus.

    Tim

    September 4, 2007 at 12:21 am#65307
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 01 2007,23:17)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2007,16:37)

    Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 01 2007,06:54)
    The more and more I read John 1, the less I see a pre-existant being. Are we truly to take the OT passages that speak of the “word of YHWH” and see some being flitting around, carrying out God's actions? John 1 is a simple summarization of the creation narrative: God spoke and things came to be. God spoke and a Savior was born; it was God's plan to save mankind through His only begotten Son.

    What confuses the issue with John 1 is the translation of the Greek word “autos” as “him”. This word can mean “he, she, or it”, “him, her, or it”. Yet the translators used “him” with no real reason to do so other than popular opinion. Can a “logos” — a “word” — truly be a “him”? Can somone show me where a “logos” was a “him” outside of John 1?


    Kejonn…….> I see it that way also the word is an atribute God Himself. And does not refer to Jesus at all or infer that Jesus preexisted either, John 1.1 is simply saying that in the Begining was the word (intellegent uterance) and it was with God and was God.(his atribute which is part of Him) it was in the Beginning. And this intellegence is what inlightens every man that comes into the world.
    I do not believe Jesus preexisted either, but was foreordained like  Peter said and then He was Manifisted (or brought into existence ) in our time, Just like Peter said. peace to you brother……gene


    I agree.
    John 1 has been a struggle for me for some time.
    I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is not even mentioned until John 1:4.

    John 1:1 thru John 1:3 were all talking about God Himself.
    Then in John 1:4 Jesus is mentioned.
    Jhn 1:4
    In him (God) was life; and the life was the light of men.
    In God was the life that was the light of man. That life, the light of man, which He would eventually send to earth was Jesus.

    Tim


    Hi TimothyVI;
    thank you for sharing this;

    Its so refreshing; God is Good, wow….

    September 4, 2007 at 10:01 pm#65330
    charity
    Participant

    His soul said this about, the servant Christ that was chosen; I feel concerned with a possible snare of the way; the way th Y Names have been used, in the average person may not be fully sure who they are giving worship to?
    Due to not enough awareness OF, and a taking part in the resurrection of the dead, in which Christ was the first born of the dead. THAT many to follow, and even so by the instructions of the soul that were written before became flesh, did he confirm his coming into the world as written here, and used by Christ himself….

    Mat 12:18
    Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    THE TALKING SOUL; a creation soul from the fathers days, that christ followed, being the first of the generation of the children, the sons of the fathers,
    Zec 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver [them].
    ¶ And I will feed the flock of slaughter, [even] you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
    Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
    And I took my staff, [even] Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
    And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it [was] the word of the LORD.

    September 10, 2007 at 2:13 am#65685
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..

    The Word is Jesus our God.

    Rev 19:11  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    Rev 19:12  His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    Rev 19:13  And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14  And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Rev 19:16  And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
    Rev 19:17  And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

    In case you missed it

    Rev 19:17  And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto  
    the supper of the great God;

    Jesus the Lamb of God and the Word of God,  is the Great God, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Almighty God    :O

    September 10, 2007 at 2:37 am#65694
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,14:13)
    The Word is Jesus our God


    Not true.

    Jesus is our Lord, not God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    You need to watch your life and doctrine closely because if you don't, you could damn or damage both yourself and your hearers.

    September 10, 2007 at 3:21 am#65699
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 10 2007,18:37)

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,14:13)
    The Word is Jesus our God


    Not true.

    Jesus is our Lord, not God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    You need to watch your life and doctrine closely because if you don't, you could damn or damage both yourself and your hearers.


    t8. Not so fast with your “twist.”
    There are no commas in the original language so don't rely on them for your doctrine.

    there is but one God the Father
    there is but one God the Son
    there is but one God the Holy Spirit.

    T8. Do you believe that the Father is “Lord”?
    Likewise the Son is God.

    there is but one Lord Jesus Christ
    there is but one Lord The Holy Spirit
    there is but one Lord The Father

    t8. Consider the following:

    2Pe 3:16  as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.  :O

    September 10, 2007 at 3:22 am#65700
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.:O

    September 10, 2007 at 4:32 am#65713
    kejonn
    Participant

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 09 2007,22:21)

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 10 2007,18:37)

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,14:13)
    The Word is Jesus our God


    Not true.

    Jesus is our Lord, not God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    You need to watch your life and doctrine closely because if you don't, you could damn or damage both yourself and your hearers.


    t8. Not so fast with your “twist.”
    There are no commas in the original language so don't rely on them for your doctrine.

    there is but one God the Father
    there is but one God the Son
    there is but one God the Holy Spirit.


    And yet the verse listed only mentions one God, the Father. Where is “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit” in 1 Cor 8:6? Where are those phrases anywhere in scripture at all?

    Quote
    T8. Do you believe that the Father is “Lord”?
    Likewise the Son is God.


    Is the Holy Spirit Lord? If there are 3, all three must be Lord. Where do we ever see Lord attributed to the Holy Spirit?

    Quote
    there is but one Lord Jesus Christ
    there is but one Lord The Holy Spirit
    there is but one Lord The Father


    Please provide the scripture that supports “Lord the Holy Spirit”.

    But I know you cannot because these scripture passages do not exist. Not that you cae, you only come on here once a week to say the same things and ignore rebuttals.

    September 17, 2007 at 10:30 pm#66241
    Mr. Steve
    Participant

    CB;

    You are the funny one. You declare one God and then name three that are God. News flash: God is one, not three.

    Take Care

    Steven

    January 16, 2008 at 10:04 pm#79011
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,
    Prophets spoke for God and Jesus was such a prophet as Peter showed in Acts 3.22.
    But none was called the Word of God except the man Jesus who was ever a mouthpiece for God.
    Of course this could not be the case if he also was the God for whom he was the Word.

    June 17, 2008 at 7:38 pm#93170
    NickHassan
    Participant

    topical

    June 18, 2008 at 1:33 pm#93299
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2007,08:45)
    Hi K,
    That is when the LOGOS was with God.
    He was with God before that too- in the beginning.
    Then the LOGOS was made flesh and dwelled among us.


    Hi Nick,
    Was Logos a person which is also called God in Jn 1:1?

    June 18, 2008 at 6:56 pm#93319
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Indeed, but not our God.
    Many are called gods in scripture.

    June 19, 2008 at 2:17 am#93364
    gollamudi
    Participant

    So you don't believe Jn 1:1

    1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”

    You don't believe that the word was our God?

    June 19, 2008 at 2:29 am#93368
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Does it say OUR GOD in the verse you quote?

    June 19, 2008 at 2:43 am#93372
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    God is God where is the question making another “god” as you repeatedly quote as socalled gods?
    We have only one God whose “word” is mentioned in Jn 1:1 that is what I believe.

    June 19, 2008 at 2:51 am#93374
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Is God just a Word?

    June 19, 2008 at 6:39 am#93410
    gollamudi
    Participant

    you are going into same old arguements again, I only told that you should agree with Jn 1:1 that “the word was God” means the word is no separate person from that one God but an attribute belongs to Him.

    June 19, 2008 at 7:31 am#93411
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Gm,
    It does not say God was the Word though does it?
    It does say the Word was with God-three times.

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