Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2010,15:02)Roo,I will forgive you and I can accept that you and WJ truly believe you are trinitarians and that our definitions of being a trinitarian are different.  So I am sorry for using the word 'pretend.'Keith, I'm sorry for using the word 'pretend' in that post about 'pretending' to be trinitarians.  We have d…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2010,12:10)Have I been perverting God's word in your opinion?  Then show me what word that I have been perverting and defend your view-with scripture so we can discuss it, otherwise stop with the false inuendos for they are destructive.Wow!Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black! Didn't you just accuse Jack and…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2010,12:29)Monogenes truly means 'only begotten' and not 'only, unique one' in regards to the Son of God, our Savior.KathiAnd what is the difference? If he is the “Only Begotten Son” then he is a “Unique” Son, right?Strong's G3439 – monogenēs; Single, of its kind, Only Once again, John didn't say “In the beginning was…[Read more]

MikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 11 2010,19:16)You need to check with Paul and the Apostles Mike.Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews and spoke Hebrew and was closer to Jesus and the LXX than any of the early Fathers, and he gives examples of the word Begotten “Yalad” or “gennao” a different meaning than you say.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2010,18:54)Don't you find it weird that only you KJ and WJ seem to think Jesus was not LITERALLY begotten?Wrong.Everyone that I know of here except for Irene does not believe that he was begotten (born) before the ages or time.WJ

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2010,18:23)So they must invent new meanings for “yalad” and “monogenes”.You need to check with Paul and the Apostles Mike.Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews and spoke Hebrew and was closer to Jesus and the LXX than any of the early Fathers, and he gives examples of the word Begotten “Yalad” or “gennao” a different meaning…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 11 2010,17:39)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 11 2010,17:00)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 11 2010,07:27)I wouldn't dismiss the words of the early true disciples of Christ because they can explain the culture of the times and reflect general understandings of the words of their mentors with far more accuracy than we can.Kathi You…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 11 2010,07:27)I wouldn't dismiss the words of the early true disciples of Christ because they can explain the culture of the times and reflect general understandings of the words of their mentors with far more accuracy than we can.Kathi You say all this but yet you dismiss most of what the Trinitarian Fathers teach. You…[Read more]

Quote (Arnold @ Aug. 11 2010,15:50)One more thing, if the Holy Spirit is a person then He will be the Father of Jeus, and that is not so, because the Holy Spirit is the essence of God the Father…His Holy SpiritSo if the Holy Spirit is not a person then a thing or impersonal force or power concieved Jesus in the womb, right?Unless you believe the…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2010,22:27)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 11 2010,04:54)Yachid vs. Echad The most important verse Jews memorized in the Bible was Deut 6:4: “Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one !” There are a few words in Hebrew that the Holy Spirit could have used a word the has one exclusive meaning: the numeric, solitary…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,15:33)Keith,I think you have to look at the context.  Tertullian puts it well:Quote I will therefore not speak of gods at all, nor of lords, but I shall follow the apostle; so that if the Father and the Son, are alike to be invoked, I shall call the Father “God,” and invoke Jesus Christ as “Lord.”79177917    Rom.…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,15:06)Do you believe everything your church believes?  I doubt it so why are you picking on me?KathiYou started on the Trinitarian thing and implied that we were being dishonest because according to your understanding of what a Trinitarian was, we were not Trinitarians.And as far as truth, I stand by what I believe…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,15:38)Keith, so then you would say that the Father came into being from Jesus…just saying if you take the stand that nothing means absolutely nothing.KathiNo because verse 1 and 2 of John 1:1 makes it clear that Jesus was with the Father before all things. So the Father and Jesus is not included in the “All…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,15:16)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2010,13:18)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,18:41)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,08:44)As you can tell, to be made finished is one of the definitions.  Now let's see how the heavens and the earth were not yet finished until after day one when Light came.Hi Kathi,I can live…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,15:13)Roo,Coming into being means a finished existence, not an unfinished existence.  Foundations were being laid when the seas were being marked out, day 3. Read Proverbs 8.KathiWere the “atoms” that the water was composed of “complete” for they are part of the “all things were made by him and “nothing came into…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,14:27)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 10 2010,13:38)Kathi said;Quote Would someone like to fill the roo in on the fact that asexual reproduction means without sex.Would someone like to fill Kathi in on the fact that Christ was begotten at His resurrection and this was not a “reproduction” of any kind? While you're at it…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,14:21)Keith,I do not believe that the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.I don't care what the trinitarian forefathers thought, I am more interested in what the early Christians thought.  The early Christians say that the Son was begotten before the ages, one adds without passion ( I assume that…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,13:50)Jack,No one before God the Father was formed and no other God, (a source of all things) came into being.  The Son was not the source of Himself but came from the source.  God is declaring that there is no other unbegotten God and anything coming into being would not be an unbegotten God like He was.  The un…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,13:18)Keith,Then why are you asking me if he is a trinitarian if you don't think I can make that decision?    I don't care if he was a trinitarian.  It only matters if he has truth to offer. When does Calvin say that the Son became a divine Son Keith?  It wasn't at his coronation was it?  Can you admit that or do I…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2010,18:41)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 09 2010,08:44)As you can tell, to be made finished is one of the definitions.  Now let's see how the heavens and the earth were not yet finished until after day one when Light came.Hi Kathi,I can live with that.  Let's see if anyone else has any reason why your revelation isn't short o…[Read more]