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Bod
So what you are saying is that Adam and Eve were forgiven by God at that time for their sin? I am not sure where you find that. They were removed from the garden, eve’s increase in pain at child birth, Adam having to cultivate the land to produce “thistles”.

I’m not sure how to respond to the tree of life, other then to say, the garden life was eternal, they were blessed with all that they needed to live forever, and I would suppose blissfully happy.
They also had immediate communication with God.

Bod I am curious do you believe that was the original plan for all of mankind, to live forever on a paradise earth?

[torcha]

Bod
I would like to disagree with you on your idea of faith. It is the belief in something with strenght of evidence and relative understanding that has not yet been seen or come to pass. Blind faith in just a “shot in the dark”. Not ment to be an insult.

[torcha]

lightenup
Very interesting concepts. Don't forget what Jesus says it means your eternal life understanding the father. There is no question the father can give as much power to Jesus as he wishes i.e. judgment the power to create. But it is GIVEN. I have allways been struck how God discribes himself in ISA 40 to about 46. Quite clear as to who he says he is and wants! ” in the beginning there were no other strange Gods I saw none, you are my witness” And he has never delegated the hearing of prayers. Jesus says the father is his God . Jesus through his sacrafice gave us the opportunity to pray to God the Father. Yes the Son has his Place. In Revalation it says, paraphrasing when the earth is made a paridise again and all are glorifying God Jesus will lay the earth and himself at his Fathers feet and new scrolls will be opened. It is as if Jesus says to his Father ' what do you require of me now”. Obviously my words. WHAT A SON!!!! WHAT A FATHER and GOD!!!

[torcha]

Bod
Adam and Eve WOULD have lived forever they were made by God, they were perfect! But they sined, on that day they left the path of perfection down the path that lead to their ultimate demise, and their children, us, have the same problem we eventually die. That is where Jesus comes in, the one sacrifice for all time. What Adam and Eve did was BIG, it was a chalange to Gods universal right to rule, he made everything he has the RIGHT to rule { in any way he sees fit}. We are all lucky he is a just, loving and rightest God. He showed his love for us by finding a way for our salvation throught his son.

[torcha]

Bod
I don’t know if I understand your point exactly. As far as prophecy is concerned I believe it will be revealed in Gods proper time, as to understanding God and his relationship with us ,I would defer to Jesus.
John 17: 1-3
1.Jesus spoke these words, lifted up his eyes to heaven and said “father the hour has come. Glorify your son, that your son also may glorify you. 2. As you have given him authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him. 3. “And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
This is not ambiguous. If it means eternal life, that we know the father, in some bibles it says, “taking in knowledge of you”. That information would be clearly related in the bible. This is not prophecy, this is information for understanding, for LIFE. I believe God is a God of logic. He would not play word games with information for our eternal life! Certainly prophecy aside.

[torcha]

AS a final thought. Who would stand to gain the most over confusion of the true nature of God and his son, in the largest sense? I know this is a bit rhetorical.

[torcha]

FIRST OF ALL I am a bible reader, certainly not a bible scholar. IT IS IN THIS VAIN I would like to ask some questions, make some statements, So as to get some responses.
I will number them to make it easier to respond.
1. For approximately two thousand years the Jews were God’s chosen people. And he revealed himself to them through the prophets.
2. God went into great detail how his temple was to be constructed, how sacrifices to him were to be done i.e. Moses.
3. The Jews were Unitarian in their belief, awaiting a promised messiah.
4. How could it be that through all the prophets he did not reveal his true nature clearly i.e. The Trinity? And if he did was he just being cryptic about it?
5. And this would be so even to the time of Jesus. Mark 12: 28 – 32 quotes 28 “Then one of the scribes came and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that he had answered well, asked him,” which is the first commandment of all? 29 Jesus answered him, the first of all commandments is. “Hear O Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. “Jump to 32. So the Scribe said to him. “Well said teacher, you have spoken the truth, for there is one God. And there is no other but he.”

6 The scribe would have been speaking as a Unitarian?
7 Was Jesus being cryptic in his answer knowing there are two other persons as a Trinity that deserved all honor and praise?
8 If he was it is very close to an untruth. He would have known the understanding of the scribe, and he did not correct him?
9 So wouldn’t Jesus himself to that point be teaching a Unitarian belief?
10 And concerning the Holy Sprit, when Stephen had a view of heaven and saw the Father and Jesus at his right side where was the Holy Sprit? Would he not be there to confuse the beliefs at a later time?

I know some of my points might seem simple minded, that being said I don’t believe the bible was writer just for bible scholars.

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