K

is the image of the image the same as the original image ? understand that it does not talks about copy’s ,and how could any one be like Christ who is the one through whom all things were created through ,and that all things hold together in ,and would this mean that now God as more first sons ,and what make those that come to join Christ as…[Read more]

j42

it seem to me you believe that “THE WORD” his God’s own words right ?

but how do you know that ? their is not one scripture that support that view;and if you find one “you have to interpret it with your very own words ,to make it into what you say and believe ,and so braking the scriptures ,

it is important that we believe the scriptures if…[Read more]

k

READ MY LAST ANSWER TO J42 IT WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AS WELL

So you admit that before Christ was born flesh, when he was The Word of God, was just a creature? So you go out and preach to the world that the one that holds the keys to death and hell is a creature, so fear him. Put your soul, and your trust and every sin you have into the hands of a creature. No man can come to the Father but through a…[Read more]

k

THE WORDS OF PAUL  ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

this scripture does not make any difference between the invisible body and spirit of God almighty I so understand that “THE WORD”(Christ) is in all respect the “image ” of his father ;then adding to this ;HE HIS THE FIRST BORN OF CREATION…[Read more]

J42

(

Pierre

I know those scriptures.

What it boils down to is that you are implying the Word of God is a creature?)

YES ,IN DEED HE IS , HE IS THE SON OF GOD AND HIS FIRST CREATION

j42

it is you that as been deceived ;

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven””” AND”” on earth, visible “””AND””” invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before…[Read more]

K

i never said that the angels were created directly by God ,but Christ is the first of God’s creation ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible

T8

(<span style=”font-weight: bold;”>Does this not prove to you that ‘begotten’ and ‘created’ do not entirely mean the same thing?)</span>

NOT REALLY , it just qualifies for what the questions are worth ,your question 1)<span style=”font-weight: bold;”>1) Is Jesus the only begotten? this is not a question to be asked in scripture truth ,…[Read more]

t8

I do not try to argue on words ,but as a whole the scriptures shows that the son was not there at one point and that he is God first creation ,this is I think the main base for our faith in him ,

because all things are hold together  in him ‘

we may argue from here to eternity but it will not change that fact ,if you believe it or…[Read more]

t8

your two questions are not clear and so present multi answers,

1) is Christ the only begotten son of God as the only first of his creation ;yes

2) Is Christ the only direct creation of God ? yes

none other than Jesus can claim the supremacy after his father ,

To t8

The only thing I see in your thinking is that you make things complicated , Christ has been created, made, born, bring forth, to me it is all the same , what is to me a reality is that at one time Jesus The Word did not exist , and that God created all things through him ,

That is my scriptural understanding , the fact that we really do…[Read more]

t8

{Then you give the example of Adam. He is a man and all men were created through him. But not all men were created through Adam. Adam was not created through Adam as you imply. But the definition of a man is not all that is begotten by human parents even if it is 99.99999999999999999 % correct. The head of man is Christ and that would go for…[Read more]

{The only thing is, it actually doesn’t say anywhere there that he was created. But scripture repeats that he is the only begotten. Thus, there might be something to this. People believe Jesus is God when it actually doesn’t say he is. They assume that. People believe that Jesus started existence as a man even though it doesn’t say that eithe…[Read more]

HI

HOW DO WE ALL STOP DOING ANYTHING ? just by analyzing things we do ,see what is good and what is wrong ,pick what you want to do ,then as a good worker start the cleanup one by one ,and stopping from producing more of the bad so that in time you will be out of the bad and only in the good ,

it works if you do it for the right purpose that…[Read more]

{t8 says
he is the only created of the God}

Yes “the word” is the only one created directly by God ;and for this Christ his the ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ;IF HE WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE CREATED BY GOD ;<HE WOULD NOT BE THE ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD >for God created many other sons

this is what Paul means;Col 1:15 He is the image of the…[Read more]

{T.
(1)Was the Holy Spirit also created?

(2)Was the Word also created?

(3)Was the spirit of love also created?

(4)Was truth also created?

(5)What about God’s wisdom,is it also created,or was it in God from everlasting?

wakeup.}

1) the holy spirit IS OF GOD ;SO NOT CREATED,BUT PART OF GOD

2) THE BEING THAT HAS THE NAME OF “THE WORD” HAS B…[Read more]

Mike

I do not see why t8 sees what he sees for John 1;1-4 and Col;1;15-21 really comes together for a full understanding

God ;created THE WORD(CHRIST){this is the beginning}  then God created all things through him (THE WORD) and all scriptures are true ,

the scriptures are right ,you just do not see it right for you are looking for what is wrong not for what is the truth ,

what is truth is proven by what is wrong ,and wrong is proven by what is right and true ,

K

{That is a very poor argument as the question is not whether it is mentioned in Scripture but rather if symbolism is used }

you changed the topic ;from 144k  redeemed from the earth  to symbolism  ,and you establish thats the way to see it ,why you need me for ,

the fact that you take it in symbolism I do not,  God is playing with you…[Read more]