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[shem4name]

Nick, there is more to fruit then those few verses is Gl.

•2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
How does the doctrine correct, reproof or train me in righteousness? With what does it equip me?
•1 Cor. 14:26 What then, brethren, is [the right course]? When you meet together, each one has a hymn, a teaching, a disclosure of special knowledge or information, an utterance in a [strange] tongue, or an interpretation of it. [But] let everything be constructive and edifying and for the good of all.

[shem4name]

Well Nick at times it is proper to speak of your own achievements for the purpose of example. In the past year I have released a CD of original Christian music. I am about to publish a book of essays on the Christian walk. I am also publishing a Fiction Novel. I will be teaching in a Bible College this fall on Hebrew Culture. I have been involved in numerous prayer ministries and deliverance/healing sessions.

[shem4name]

I wonder about these people that post on here day and night. I wonder how many people they have witnessed to in the past month. I wonder how many have gone to some sort of fellowship to be with other saints. I guess I should ask how many got out of their mother's basement.

[shem4name]

I want to apologize to all of you. I should not have disturbed your little kingdom and I should not have exposed myself to the idiocy contained therein. It is becoming clear why I left this looney tunes forum in the first place. Have at it. I am out of here. Make whatever comments you want. I am moving on you can sit in your own feces for another year. You will be in the same place next year. You are already dead and the forum is your coffin.

[shem4name]

Quote (Ed J @ April 25 2012,11:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:01) Martian, YOUR reasoning says that God can't possibly be an example to us, because He has unfair advantage over us.   Hi Mike, I agree, that is a bit odd?   God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Christ's call to the church is to follow him. the name Christian itself means follower of Christ. How can I follow Christ if all the decisions he made are based on criteria not available to me?

[shem4name]

Quote (Ed J @ April 25 2012,11:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:01) Martian, YOUR reasoning says that God can't possibly be an example to us, because He has unfair advantage over us.   Hi Mike, I agree, that is a bit odd?   God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

It is not just the concept of an example. It is the idea of him being an example that we can actually become like. You cannot become like a creature that is of another nature or being.

[shem4name]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:58)

Hi Ed, When I read your post, I had to double check that it was you, and not Carmel, who posted that stuff.   I'm sort of with you on the “mind sweep” thing.  I don't believe Jesus had his past memories until the Jordan.  I believe that when he was baptized, the Spirit that came upon him filled him with the memories of his past life in heaven.

If what you say is true then Christ made all of his decisions from the Jordan forward on criteria, memories and knowledge not available to us. So much for him as an example. I cnnot make decisions in the same manner as him or based on the info.
That is not even rational within the plan of God.

[shem4name]

Edj I think it is strange that you come up with some “Mind Sweep” teaching. You must be confusing the Bible with a Star trek vulcan book.

[shem4name]

The premiss of this OP was not the preexistence. It was the fruit of doctrine. If you want to believe that Christ preexisted that's fine with me. As long as you agree that the man that was born and walked on this Earth did so without any advantage in power, knowledge or source of God then we have. If you do not believe this then to what ever measure you change Christ from us, to that same measure do you deny him as our example.

[shem4name]

Romans 15:4 For whatever was thus written in former days was written for our instruction, that by [our steadfast and patient] endurance and the encouragement [drawn] from the Scriptures we might hold fast to and cherish hope.

How does the doctrine in question instruct or foster encouragement and hope?

2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

How does the doctrine correct, reproof or train me in righteousness? With what does it equip me?

1 Cor 14:26What then, brethren, is [the right course]? When you meet together, each one has a hymn, a teaching, a disclosure of special knowledge or information, an utterance in a [strange] tongue, or an interpretation of it. [But] let everything be constructive and edifying and for the good of all.

What is constructive about the doctrine? How is it edifying? How does it build me up?
To me the most precious of all fruits is HOPE. Without hope what would we look forward to in this life? We look at Christ and see him overcome temptation as our example. Does our doctrine show us an example in which we can take hope to overcome temptation? The greatest hope of all is the resurrection to eternal life. Does our doctrine produce hope (by way of example) that we can be resurrected in like manner?
The entire purpose of God is wrapped up in the plan to make all men like Christ. The awesome power of the cross is just the beginning. From that mighty work of grace we are legally in the plan of God and can boldly approach Him to change us into the very image of His son. Even as Christ represented the character and heart of His Father, so should we represent Christ. Christ is our example.

[shem4name]

t8, it is a matter of opinion as to what would be more of a sacrifice an eternal son becoming a man (A very sketchy possibility) Or The man Christ begotten in Mary's womb.
The first produces a lot of mysteries and unanswered questions.
What happened to the memories and experiences from this prior life? Did Christ have them in his Earthly life and if so that would eliminate him as an example because he would not be like us or make decisions based on the same criteria.

God is a functional being. Why would he cloud the issue with ambiguity or leave such huge loop holes for the devil or our imagination to speculate about?

[shem4name]

Quote (terraricca @ April 25 2012,05:31)

Quote (shem4name @ April 25 2012,12:13) No I am not on vacation. However, since mike made this comment, “As for me, I will believe the scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” I see no point on further conversation with him. What he was really saying is ““As for me, I will believe the [my interpretation of] scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” The very point of seeing our interpretation in light of God's plan is the point and the check to see of our interpretation is correct. His gospel and mine are so far apart I might as well be talking to a Muslim. To degrade the importance of becoming like Christ is so far outside of the gospel I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would utter such words and yet claim to be a Christian. Why bother proclaiming yourself a Christian if you deny the very act of following (becoming like) Christ? MARTIANS IF YOU FEEL THAT WHAT YOU THINK AND DO IS RIGHT YOU ARE SO TOTALLY SATISFIED, if all of this will be accepted by God that your problem right ???yes many ,here have made their mind up of what in scriptures is of interest to them ,but this is not what scriptures is all about , if you pull God words to you ,then you lowering God spirit to yours ,but if you are reading your mind and heart to God so that he can elevate you and clean you to be worthy to him in some way ,then you have gain life. and taking one ore two verses out of scriptures to support your view while many other verses are not supporting that view ,this should be enough to anyone ,to understand that truth as to be complete in all of God's written word. if not it is false or miss used

I am sorry that you do not get it. However, I am not going to pick up the arm of flesh and operate in the worlds system to debate you as is prevalent on this forum.
I wish you well and will pray for you.

[shem4name]

No I am not on vacation. However, since mike made this comment, “As for me, I will believe the scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” I see no point on further conversation with him. What he was really saying is ““As for me, I will believe the [my interpretation of] scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” The very point of seeing our interpretation in light of God's plan is the point and the check to see of our interpretation is correct. His gospel and mine are so far apart I might as well be talking to a Muslim. To degrade the importance of becoming like Christ is so far outside of the gospel I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would utter such words and yet claim to be a Christian. Why bother proclaiming yourself a Christian if you deny the very act of following (becoming like) Christ?

[shem4name]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2012,05:57)

Hi Martian, The SPIRIT IS the FULFILLMENT of the plan of God. Understanding alone is uselessness. The flesh profiteth nothing

Nick, No the perfect spotless bride of Christ is the fulfillment of God's plan.

[shem4name]

I know when I post this that those stuck in what I am about to discuss will try to twist it to their system. I post it for the one or two on here that might still be capable of discernment.

On this forum I received this reply when I ask how his doctrine helped me to become like Christ. “As for me, I will believe the scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.”
This is so typical of the lost wandering souls that have no concept of the plan of God. What is the point of scriptural teaching if not to help us complete the plan of God. (become like Jesus) These people may have stumbled into salvation but have fallen completely asleep in a moray of useless ventures. Someday I hope they will wake up and realize that the scriptures are not the standard but the plan of God and what we do with it is the standard. Christ is that standard by which we measure our progress in the plan, and the completion of God's plan is to become like him. These debaters are more interested in lining you up with their particular take on scripture then they are whether or not the teaching actually helps you become like Christ. They are modern day Pharisees piling lots of burdens of intellectual data on your head without a care if it actually helps you. They are not motivated by love for your soul, they are motivated by their insecurity and needing to prove their point so they can have some false self worth.
You cannot teach or convince people that do not operate within the need to complete the plan of God in themselves and others. They have another agenda outside of God's plan.
Let me expand on these thoughts a bit. Jeff Benner of the Ancient Hebrew Research Center defines the words Good and Evil from the Tree in the Garden of Eden in the following manner.
“What does “good” mean? The first use of this word is in Genesis chapter one where calls his handiwork “good”. It should always be remembered that the Hebrews often relate descriptions to functionality. The word tov would best be translated with the word “functional”. When looked at his handiwork he did not see that it was “good”, he saw that it was functional, kind of like a well oiled and tuned machine. In contrast to this word is the Hebrew word “ra”. These two words, tov and ra are used for the tree of the knowledge of “good” and “evil”. While “ra” is often translated as evil it is best translated as “dysfunctional”.
At the fall man became dysfunctional in all areas. The way he processed and judged information and stimulus became centered in the intellect rather then the heart. To varying degrees this became the place of our consciousness and the interconnecting spiritual image of God in us was pushed away.This dysfunctional operating system permeated humanity till it was elevated to a revered position in the Greeks. Touted as an enlightenment, what it really contained was the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the 666 and the rule of man’s mental imagery over God’s functionality. And what was the result? As the Greek influence took more hold in the teaching of the church, Mental imagery took the place of discerning the spirit. Intellectual constructs took the place of walking by faith.
Well what is faith you might ask? Again Jeff Benner has the answer.
“The Hebrew root aman means firm, something that is supported or secure. This word is used in Isaiah 22:23 for a nail that is fastened to a “secure” place. Derived from this root is the word emun meaning a craftsman. A craftsman is one who is firm and secure in his talent. Also derived from aman is the word emunah meaning firmness, something or someone that is firm in their actions. When the Hebrew word emunah is translated as faith misconceptions of its meaning occur. Faith is usually perceived as a knowing while the Hebrew emunah is a firm action. To have faith in God is not knowing that God exists or knowing that he will act, rather it is that the one with emunah will act with firmness toward God's will. “
In other words, Faith is the action of working with God to complete his will or his plan for everyone including ourselves.
When we examine the teachings do we complicate the issue by trying to replace their intellectually perceived dogma for our intellectually perceived dogma? If so, then both parties are wrong and both are operating in the knowledge of good and evil. A pyridine shift is needed. The image of God in us wants to complete God’s plan in us. If we listen closely we can hear it say about a teaching presented, “Does this help to complete God’s plan? Is there room for faith in this? Is there a provision for me to work with God in this?”
HOWEVER – If your first response is to pull out your intellectual data and bullet lists of scripture proof texts, you missed it and you are operating in the knowledge of Good and Evil. You will be operating in a worldly system under the guise of scriptural debate and you will claw your way through all the muck and mire for very little fruit. This is why debate forums can be so frustrating, aggravating and exhausting.
Those of you that know me, and my stand on functional teaching have heard me say for a long time that the manner in which the debate forums operate is a waste of time. You have heard me say it hundreds of times. When someone presents me with a teaching I ask a simple question. “What is the fruit of your teaching or how does it help me become like Christ?” If they brush aside the importance of that fruit, then you have clear indication of their motives. They want to take you into their intellectual data processing system of dysfunction. If you follow them there you will experience the reality of this verse,
Matthew 7:6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Don’t be a sucker to the world and it’s systems. Walking in the truth is not that difficult. If you have a heart to complete God’s plan for your life, including becoming like Christ, then all you need to know about teaching is how it helps you to do that!

[shem4name]

Gene,
When I saw this post by Mike, I should have left then. “Suit yourself Martian. As for me, I will believe the scriptures whether or not I think they make it more possible for me to be like Jesus.” This is so typical of the lost wandering souls that have no concept of the plan of God. They may have stumbled into salvation but have fallen completely asleep in a moray of useless ventures. Someday I hope they will wake up and realize that the scriptures are not the standard but the plan of God and what we do with it is the standard. Christ is that standard and the completion of God's plan to become like him. They are more interested in lining you up with their particular take on scripture then they are whether or not the teaching actually helps you become like Christ. They are modern day Pharisees piling lots of intellectual data on your head without a care if it actually helps you. They are not motivated by love for your soul, they are motivated by their insecurity and needing to prove their point to have self worth.
Gene, You cannot teach or convince people that do not operate within the need to complete the plan of God in themselves and others. They have another agenda outside of God's plan.

[shem4name]

MB just not in the mood to cast my pearls before the swine. That be you sir. You people have not grown or accomplished anything in the many months I have been gone. Stuck in death and loving it. It was a major waste of time getting back on here. I am out of this trap!

[shem4name]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,11:20)

Were either of you two going to actually try to SCRIPTURALLY refute my last post?  Or is “OMG” the best you guys have to offer?

OMG again.

[shem4name]

http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/5257/philippians2.htm

[shem4name]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 22 2012,08:57)

Martian, Your last post only reinforces my first comment on this thread:  You wish to place Jesus where you WANT him to be (despite what the scriptures actually teach), for your own selfish reasons.  Because it makes YOU feel more empowered if Jesus was nothing but “exactly like the rest of us”, you will teach a Jesus who was “exactly like the rest of us”. I teach the scriptural Jesus, who existed in the form of God before willingly emptying himself of this grand existence to be “re-made” as a lower species, in order that some might be saved through him. It is this mind we are to have in us.  The willingness to walk completely away from any “frills” our current life holds if that is what it takes to do God's will.

OMG

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