Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 07 2006,18:40)Water baptism is symbolism.Does it say that in scripture or is that a conclusion you have come to?I know this: “Water baptism is obedience”, not an optional extra if you feel like it.

Look at it another way.If we are told to be baptised and we are disobedient to that, then what am I to conclude?

Correct.We receive that redemption when we believe, repent, and are baptised into Christ.

Baptism in water as commanded and demonstrated doesn't nullify the “Blood of the Lamb”. It supports it.

Quote (Woutlaw @ July 07 2006,18:28)no obedience, no salvation !!!!!Amen Woutlaw.No obedience, no salvation.Ephesians 5:6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

Amen Nick.Why should we rewrite the instructions of the Apostle. He is part of our foundation.

Thanks heiscomingintheclouds.Sure it makes sense that going under water and having certain words spoken over you is not going to save anyone, rather the works of our Lord who paid the price for our sins. After all water is but a physical substance although crucial to physical life.But Peter tells us to be baptised and then we will receive the gift…[Read more]

Hi Nick.I think that they believed the gospel, not just specific “believe on the Lord Jesus” part. After the message to believe to be saved, they then spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. I would assume that the word of the Lord included repentance and then baptism.The belief part is absolutely necessary and if…[Read more]

Quote You are correct brother. They were told to believe first and then they were taken and baptized by water.Good. We all seem to be in agreement on that.

That's what I would have thought Woutlaw.When we are baptised we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.So I cannot see them not being baptised in water. Peter commanded us to be baptised. And our foundation is Christ, the Apostles, and Prophets. I would prefer to listen to them.Acts 2:38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in…[Read more]

To heiscomingintheclouds,I find it hard to believe that the jailer wasn't baptised in water.Why would the baptism of the eunuch in Acts 8:36-39 be different to the jailer in Acts 16:30-33Acts 8:36-39 36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?”38 And he gave…[Read more]

33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.So are you saying that the baptism above is not water baptism?

Acts 16:30-33 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then i…[Read more]

Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 06 2006,19:36)2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.Also we are in Christ by being baptised into him.Galatians 3:27″For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

To heiscomingintheclouds, Acts 8:36-39 36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?”38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of…[Read more]

Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 06 2006,19:05)31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.Romans 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.Romans 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto…[Read more]

True Woutlaw.We must obey his commands if we belong to him.It's not up to us to choose what we will and won't do. If we are servants, we do what the master wants us to do.He commanded that we be baptised. So we should do that which he commanded.Acts 20:27For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.1 John 2:17The world and its…[Read more]

Not all these verses are clear teachings of Christ pre-existing in Heaven before coming in the flesh. Some are just pointers and fit nicely into the big picture. On their own they are not proof.Other scriptures in my opinion teach clearly that Christ existed (as the Logos) before he partook of the flesh.John 6:38-40For I have come down from…[Read more]

In order to say that Christ was created as a man first, we then deny that Christ's nature which was of his Fathers.We demote Jesus to a flesh being who was exhalted afterward. But this thinking does seem to deny the truth that 'Jesus came in the flesh', 'that Jesus partook of the flesh'.To me there are too many scriptures that talk of…[Read more]

Yes good point Nick. Yes Jesus is the way, truth, and life. God created all things through him and for him. God created all things through his Son.Similarly we are the branches and he is the vine. God tends to the vine. But without the vine there would be no branches. In nature a vine grows and springs branches. But some teach that the branches…[Read more]