Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2009,15:21)t8……..and no scripture you posted say He preexisted in any form what so ever. You have to slightly force the text to say that. Don't you think that such a issue would have been a big part of the gospel,  and thoroughly explained in great detail if it were true.peace and love  to you and y…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2009,15:17)Scripture is also more clear that God Created everything by himself and aloneOK, then how do you explain the following:Genesis 1:26Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2009,04:15)martian….Amen brother, if we don't see Jesus as a simple human being just like us we are pushing him away from our real identity, Saying he preexisted as some kind of super being or what ever, Separates Him from our exact identity. Good post brother.love and peace to you and…[Read more]

Still not holding my breath?

I thought he was referring to the Book of Revelations being fulfilled and Americas collapse. Correct me if that wasn't the case.

I have scriptures that say he existed. You have nothing to say that he didn't. God wouldn't require me to deny these scriptures, would he?

Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.Colossians 1:17He is before all things, and in him all…

[Read more]

Yes John is a man. Men can be messengers/angels.

Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 16 2009,09:13)Jesus received and accepted worship from birth.Jesus was never worshiped or honored as God, but as the son of God and the Lamb.Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”Revelation 5: 12-14 12 In a loud voice they sang: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,…[Read more]

Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 16 2009,09:13)Peter was clear it was Jesus that did the healing and the raising, not he -PeterHi Seeking.LIKEWISE:Jesus works were not done in his own name but in his fathers. Jesus didn't do anything of his own accord.John 10:25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name,…[Read more]

OK. And that is my point.Translators decide which meaning we are to believe. Generally heavenly creatures are angels and human creatures are messengers, with Christ being a messenger. But Paul teaches us to question all things and that means not relying on translators to decide the meaning for us.It also opens up new meaning to the Angel of the…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 16 2009,12:55)But all messengers are not angels.But not all mal'ak are mal'ak?What are the 2 words you are using if the above is not the case?

Gene.If the word messenger means messenger, then it doesn't have preexistence or no existence meanings built in.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 16 2009,11:21)So the word is used of John, a man, in the first part and he was not an angel.Please excuse me for answering your question with a question, but what is the OT word for 'angel'?

Hi Nick.The word angel in the OT is {mal-awk}. This word is applied to men and heavenly beings. That is my point. So in the usage of that word, Jesus is indeed an angel {mal-awk}.  I have never taught that Jesus is a cherub or seraph, so in reference to them being called messengers, I am not lumping Jesus in that group.

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 15 2009,22:34)We know that Jesus is not and angel because we are told just that in Hebrews.Actually that is an assumption on your part. First off, it says to which of the angels, and then points to the son. This can equally be read as him not being an angel and being an angel too. Try reading it with the understanding that he…[Read more]

This is their message now that 2008 has past.”2009 will complete the downfall of America that began in 2008.”So next year we may see the same statement except the first date could be 2010. This could likely keep going as he is probably still receiving many tithes from his remnant of followers.But an admission that he was just plain wrong would be…[Read more]

Before Abraham was, I am.Can you say the same thing?The answer would have to be yes, if you do not believe that he pre-existed.So in that case, what would be the point if it applies to all.I don't think this verse is cryptic at all. It is quite easy to understand.Before Abraham, I am.Do you not use the words “I am” in everyday language to identify…[Read more]

Some points to ponder for Tim and Tif.2 Corinthians 5:1-91 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we…[Read more]

I must also note that we live in a dimension of time. This is not necessarily the case in eternity. Many NDE's describe the lack of time and an eternal state as being a prominent difference between this world and the next. If this is the case, then perhaps putting too much emphasis on the timing of things in eternity is pointless. Time is…[Read more]

Let's say that this is the case, TimothyVI.Then this is the sequence of events.You die as a believer.You know nothing.You are awakened and in the presence of the Lord.So from our point of view, when you leave this body you are with the Lord.