Proclaimer: Raqia is called heaven and there are three heavens.

It’s clear to us that you are PRETENDING to believe that heaven and raqia mean the exact same thing.  Of course you already know that’s not true, but to admit that there is only ONE raqia, while there are THREE heavens would mean you would have to directly address what the waters a…[Read more]

Proclaimer: I personally think that when you are right with God, you will love the truth and not reject it. You will test what you believe so you are sure. You will not be proud, obstinate, and delusional. You will not cling to lies. The Spirit of Truth which makes us sons of God will never lead us into delusions. Delusion is a fruit that exposes…

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Kathi, I posted this a while ago…

Please address it.  Thanks.

LU:  YHVH as a Unity:

For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords…

together with this:

is Lord of lords and King of kings…

 

Mike:  That’s it?  Is that REALLY the only verse on which your entire “Jesus is Yahweh Jr” doctrine is based?  Wow, Kathi.  Just wow.

Kathi, please answer.  Is that REALLY the only OT verse on which y…[Read more]

LU: Jesus confirmed that He is properly called “God.” If the created beings were called god, how much more the uncreated and only begotten Son of God would be called “God,” even “YHVH God.”

 

Mike:  We’re getting there.  First, who exactly were these “created beings” that were called gods (not “god”) by Yahweh in Psalm 82?  (It’s important to…

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LU: The word Yahweh is not in the NT. The idea is certainly there.

No it’s not.  There is nothing even close to your doctrine taught anywhere in the NT… or in the OT..

LU:  …the Christ is the second Yahweh. Certainly they didn’t think that the Father, Yahweh, was also the Christ.

Of course they didn’t think the Father, ie: “God”, was the Chri…[Read more]

LU:  The Bible does not say that all of God’s spirit sons are made in His image. Man is made in His image.

And what does that mean that we are made in His image?  Are we all two persons in one unity, but for some odd reason addressed with SINGULAR pronouns?

Does being the image OF God ever mean that we ARE God?

Of course not.  Now go apply that…[Read more]

Mike:  Kathi, how do you explain these clear contradictions between your doctrine and the Bible?  How do you explain the fact that John 1:18 clearly and undeniably distinguishes the Son as someone OTHER THAN God, whom he made known to us?

 

LU:  If there are two members within a unity and both are in the form of God yet act as one God, one of…

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Jodi:  Jesus is not declared to be God’s Son by the Gospel writers until he is anointed of the Spirit becoming the promised Messiah, until the Spirit of God descends to LIVE IN Jesus without measure, which means the exact same thing as being born of the Spirit…

1.  The Gospel writers couldn’t very well declare something about someone they did…[Read more]

Proclaimer:  But Mike places the waters above everything. In reality, if we are talking about the first heaven and the raqia / space / heaven / sky between the two waters, it is not as those pagan models say. So the water above the raqia may just be referencing the first heaven. The context determines which heaven.

You and Gene keep overlooking…[Read more]

Jodi:  God most certainly has the power to cause virgin Mary to be found with a child of Joseph’s DNA, his 23 chromosomes to which make a human according to God’s very own design and makes Matthew’s words true and not a lie.

Jodi, this is the first I’m seeing of your understanding that God impregnated Mary with Joseph’s genetic material.  All thi…[Read more]

Gene:  Mike …..Heres one for you…

Sorry Charlie.  You don’t get to keep ignoring questions that I’ve already asked you dozens of times and just ask your own question on a completely unrelated topic.

Answer mine directly and honestly FIRST, and then you will have earned the right to ask yours.

1.  Gene, you just acknowledged that clouds are…[Read more]

Danny and Berean, great input!  Thanks.  🙏

Mike: Proclaimer, why did the psalmist tell the waters above heaven to praise Yahweh in verse four, and then later tell the clouds to praise Yahweh in verse 8?

What is your direct and honest answer?  Thanks.

 

Proclaimer: There are a number of explanations…

I SINCERELY thank you from the bottom of my heart for your immediate and direct an…[Read more]

Proclaimer:  <span style=”color: #ff0000;”>But this minor point of yours changes nothing.</span>

Actually, you don’t know how major it was for me.  But no more time tonight.

Mike: I think you’re getting confused because God NAMED the firmament “heaven”.  Raqia doesn’t actually MEAN “heaven”.  That is a different Hebrew word.

So when the Bible talks of three different heavens, it is not talking about three different raqias.  There is still only one of those, and it is the second of the three different heavens.…

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Proclaimer:  Mike’s doctrine is based on misunderstandings.

Proclaimer, why did the psalmist tell the waters above heaven to praise Yahweh in verse four, and then later tell the clouds to praise Yahweh in verse 8?

What is your direct and honest answer?  Thanks.

Mike: Yes. When God created the raqia and named it heaven, it was the ONLY heaven.

 

Berean:  you mean in the sight of men?

Don’t you believe that Adam and Eve had knowledge of God’s HEAVEN (HIS THRONE)?

Adam and Eve must have known that God dwelt somewhere outside of their world.  It’s hard to say what they knew about the world, since there…[Read more]

Gene:  Proclaimer……To me the simplest way of saying it is, heaven is  the sky above. The clouds are in the sky…

It’s like I’m talking to a brick wall.  Gene, if heaven is “the sky above”, and clouds are IN the sky – as YOU just claimed – then why can’t you see that clouds can’t be the waters ABOVE “the sky above”?

How can you seriously say tha…[Read more]

Pretender: There are three heavens.

This solves your waters above the stars problem.

So there is raqia between the water on the surface of our planet and in the sky as clouds that condense as rain and snow.

And then there are stars in the raqia which is probably the second heaven.

And God is in the raqia, but the third heaven.

Not three…[Read more]