Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:55)No evidence in scriptureHmmmmm…………..So there's no evidence in scripture of what you just posted an hour ago?  Remember the part about men and angels being called gods?I'll ask again (and I'm not shouting, but making sure you see the question this time):Nick, SCRIPTURALLY SPEAKING, are there lesser…[Read more]

Nick,Only if absolutely nothing existed in heaven or on earth until Jesus was resurrected.Is that the case?

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,19:50)now can you read any single verse that says Christ is not truly GOD?give me any single verse.John 20:17Jesus said………”I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”God Almighty does not have a God of His own, jammin.  Jesus does.So while that verse doesn't spell out the words “Christ…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2012,19:35)Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,18:51)Hi MB, Your idea is to force us to put answers in your greek pigeonholes so you can foist on us your ideas. But your foundations are so far shown to be rather weak and nonspiritual. You always fall back on logic rather than giving the Spirit more time.However I believe…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,18:51)Hi MB, Your idea is to force us to put answers in your greek pigeonholes so you can foist on us your ideas. But your foundations are so far shown to be rather weak and nonspiritual. You always fall back on logic rather than giving the Spirit more time.However I believe despite your bluster you are openminded…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:37)Hi MB, First and last and firstborn born from the dead relates to the NEW CREATION in that book.Show me the word “new” in either Rev 3:14 or Col 1:15, Nick.Unless you can, then you are allowing yourself to add your own personal beliefs into what is actually written down for us.

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,19:23)King James Version (KJV)13It shall devour the strength of his skin: even the firstborn of death shall devour his strength.Actually, you help my point jammin.IF this verse wasn't metaphoric, and IF death was a real living being with sons of his own, then YES, the firstborn of death would belong to the same group…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:12)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:03)That's EXACTLY what I said, Kathi.  I said that EVEN IN situations like David's, where “firstborn” wasn't literal, but used to show preeminence, he was STILL a member OF the group of which he was appointed the firstborn.Mike,He wasn't appointed as the 'firstborn of all…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:31)Hi MB, So you do not know if it is the old creation or the new?Well, let's see Nick,He is the firstborn of every creature BECAUSE all things were then brought into existence through him – things in heaven and on earth. So you tell me. Are all things in heaven and earth “new”?

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:06)Do we really need to go over this again? Have you missed not talking about this?Not at all. Your reasoning bores me because I can sense it's out of desperation.BUT………………………We are about to discuss many scriptures besides Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15 in this thread. Those two over-discussed…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:06)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,19:57)Kathi,When you were born, you were created.  You became a new, INDIVIDUAL creation by being born.The firstBORN of the flock is still a CREATION of God.Mike,I existed before I was born by about 9 months.Kathi,Read the word I capped. Here, I've made it big and bold for…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:09)Hi MB,Jesus Christ is the one who was dead and is alive forevermore, the first and the last, the beginning of the creation of God.From the perspective of Revelation there is only one relevant creation.So, because in YOUR OWN mind this is how you see it, you are willing to ADD the word “new” into the…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:22)Hi MB, So it was all a show at the Jordan? The Spirit was shown there but you know more??What show, Nick?Jesus received the Spirit without limit at the Jordan, although he was conceived via the Spirit and was led by it all his life.Nick, the angel said “he IS the Christ”. Why are we still even discussing…[Read more]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,19:15)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,12:10)Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,18:20)Mike,So, you actually believe that Yahshua was BORN, BEGOTTEN, or given BIRTH to before the world began. If so, maybe you could explain to me how it was that he was BORN, BEGOTTEN or given BIRTH to before the world began from a…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,18:37)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,11:09)Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,15:28)David,I certainly would not believe it, since none of the Scripture references that Mike posted never makes mention that Yahshua was anointed with the set apart spirit and power . In fact, I would never believe or agree with…[Read more]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,19:10)Mike,I just recently anointed a wound on my elbow with Neosporin!See Frank?Now had you already BEEN an anointed one of God, you would be living proof that God's christs can be anointed even AFTER they are God's christs.

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,18:20)Mike,So, you actually believe that Yahshua was BORN, BEGOTTEN, or given BIRTH to before the world began. If so, maybe you could explain to me how it was that he was BORN, BEGOTTEN or given BIRTH to before the world began from a Scriptural perspective?Frank,I will be glad to…………….IF you are willing…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:02)Hi MB, You mean the new creation? Yesrev 3.14Where do you read the word “new” in Rev 3:14, Nick?

That's EXACTLY what I said, Kathi.  I said that EVEN IN situations like David's, where “firstborn” wasn't literal, but used to show preeminence, he was STILL a member OF the group of which he was appointed the firstborn.

Kathi,When you were born, you were created. You became a new, INDIVIDUAL creation by being born.The firstBORN of the flock is still a CREATION of God.