Berean:  The truth is that Jesus was made, (generated, “ginomai”) ​​so much better than the angels(not the OTHER angels)
Putting the word “OTHER” changes the whole meaning.

Simple question Berean:  Is Jesus a messenger of God?  Yes or no?

Carmel: John: 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 2The same was in the beginning with God.

ME: Mike in the above scriptures, John mentioned TWO BEGINNINGS!

Is John1:1 a  reference to Genesis 1:1?

Is John1:2  a reference to Genesis 1:3?

It is the same beginning in both verses.  And in this cas…[Read more]

You want to hear something else funny that just dawned on me?

Gene:  The language of the text in Gen 1:1&2,  does lend itself to a past existence,  Mike.

I find it hilarious that Gene, who has been ignoring countless scriptures here for over a decade in order to argue AGAINST the preexistence of Jesus has now begun ignoring scriptures in order to…[Read more]

Do you guys want to see a funny blast from the past?  This is Proclaimer just last week, making the inane strawman argument that if you believe one thing in the Bible is literal, it means you MUST also believe that EVERYTHING in the Bible is literal…

And this is Proclaimer from FOUR YEARS AGO, trying to make that same inane argument – and…[Read more]

Proclaimer:  Yes, the Bible says God created the heavens and earth in 6 days, but would it also be correct to say that God made the heavens and earth in a day? Yes / No.

No.  It would be correct to say, “in THE day when God created the heaven and the earth”, or, “in THAT day God will create a new heaven and a new earth” – but no, I don’t know of a…[Read more]

Mike:  SINCE I’M SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE LIGHT GOD MAKES SHINE IN OUR HEARTS AND THE LIGHT WITH WHICH GOD WILL ILLUMINATE NEW JERUSALEM IS NOT SUNLIGHT, PLEASE PROVIDE ANY SCRIPTURAL REASON FOR YOU TO INSIST THAT THE LIGHT GOD MADE SHINE OUT OF DARKNESS IN GEN 1:3 MUST BE SUNLIGHT… OR CLEARLY AND DIRECTLY ADMIT THAT THERE IS NO SCRI…

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You actually responded to my three questions at the bottom of the previous post FOUR YEARS AGO…

So first you admitted that since the days in the creation account include a morning and an evening, are accompanied by a number, and are directly EQUATED to six literal 24-hour days by God Himself in Ex 20:11 and 31:17, they are more likely than…[Read more]

I’ve actually been throwing the “brick” you just now “discovered” at you for FOUR YEARS!

D4T and I were trying to smarten you up on the different meanings of the word “day” 4 years ago, Proclaimer.  It is no secret that the Hebrew word “yowm” – EXACTLY like the English word “day” – can be used for the 12 hour daylight portion of a day, the…[Read more]

Proclaimer: In Micah 7:11, is the verse talking about a single 12 or 24 hour day? Yes or No.

Your answer is saying that it is NOT 12 or 24 hours.

Bravo. We have made progress.

You admit that DAY  (yō·wm) is not always 12 or 24 hours.

The brick has been placed. I will build my case from here.

My question might seem a bit strange, but I wan…

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Hi Berean,

Read that verse again with the scriptural word “messengers”, as it was written…

Hebrews 1:4 Young’s Literal Translation
…having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they.

Knowing that Jesus is a messenger and prophet of his and our God – so much so that he’s literally called “the…[Read more]

Gene, Kathi, Berean, Proclaimer, Jodi, everyone else…

Psalm 8:5… You made him a little lower than the gods; You crowned him with glory and honor.

King David said that Yahweh made mankind a little lower than the gods.  Do we all agree that David was talking about God’s heavenly sons (“angels”), and that they are openly called gods in…[Read more]

Adam:  El was the Canaanite father of the gods and therefore the father of the gods in the earliest Hebrew religion. 

Nonsense.  El is simply one of the singular Hebrew words for “god”.  Eloah is another singular version.  Elohim is the plural version.  And Elyon means the most high god.  Yahweh is called by all of those words in the Bible.…[Read more]

Adam:  I also differ from your interpretation of Deut 32:8-9 as the original text clearly states that Yahweh the god of Israelites was a subordinate to Most High (Elyon) and one among the sons of god (El may the Most High) as it is written “When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind,
he fixed the boundaries of the pe…

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Gene:  The language of the text in Gen 1:1&2,  does lend itsef to a past existence,  Mike.

Not even a chance, Gene.  Read…

Mark 10:6… But from the beginning of creation God made them male and female.

Will you now argue that by “the beginning of creation”, Jesus really meant, “14 billion years after the beginning of creation”?

Berean:  Who(Jesus), being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God…

That’s a bad translation, Berean.  Try this one…

Who, existing in the form of a god, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped…

LU:  HN would be a  more intelligent place to discuss things regarding faith if this concept was not continually mis-understood by Proclaimer, Mike, and you, Gene and some others.

I created a new thread for the sole purpose of letting you explain our “misunderstandings” to us.  You balked because it was a public thread.  So then you created you…[Read more]

Berean:  The Son is the reflection of the glory of the Father, the very imprint of HIS PERSON.
WHICH MEANS AMONG OTHER THINGS THAT HE SHARES THE ATTRIBUTES OF HIS FATHER:

OMNIPOTENCE
OMNISCIENCE
OMNIPRESENCE….

We already know from Jesus that he isn’t omnipotent, since he tells us that he can do nothing without his own God.

And we know he is…[Read more]

Proclaimer:  He is the son of God, the messiah, and lord of God’s creation.

You must be a member of the Satanic cult of the Jehovah’s Witnesses!  Therefore I win this and any future scriptural debates!

See how utterly stupid those kinds of statements are, Proclaimer?  Did my statement actually REFUTE anything you said?  Nope.  It was nothin…[Read more]

Adam:  This is the reason why I always argue with Mike, Proclaimer  and Gene on Jesus who was declared as Co-person with God in all activities starting from the first creation and ending with new creation mainly based on the NT.

Nonsense.  The NT doesn’t teach any such “Co-person”, but instead an obedient servant and prophet of God named Jesus.

LU: The book of John claims that Jesus was _______…

A god who was with THE God in the beginning.

LU:  The book of Hebrews claims that Jesus was _______…

A god whose own God set him above his peers.