Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,22:51)Mike,Are you afraid that if the 'Word' from John 1:1 existed eternally, then your theology is challenged?Kathi, If there was any scriptural evidence that the Word existed from eternity, than I would immediately adjust my understanding of scriptures to embrace that truth. I wouldn't be “afraid” of it at…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,22:47)Mike,A person can exist before they are named. Being named doesn't cause the 'existence' of their person. Did John the Baptist exist before he was named 'John?' Yes or No. Was he John before he was named 'John' in his father's mind?If Jesus eternally existed as “YHWH the Son”, then there never could have been…[Read more]

Talk about lies and breaking the rules of HN! I believe that my heavenly Father has existed from eternity, Kathi. I don't believe He was a Father until He begot His firstborn Son, Jesus.Why – is there a scripture that says He has ALWAYS been a Father? Show it to me, if there is one.If not, shhh……………

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,22:25)Mike,Ignatius is saying:The Word was eternal, not proceeding forth from silence. I take that to mean…there wasn't a period of 'no word' (silence) before the eternal word proceeded forth.He says “IS eternal”, not “WAS”. And not proceeding forth from silence could simply mean that he proceeded forth from God…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,22:21)Mike,So can you admit that Jesus was possibly given the name Jehovah by His Father?I don't believe any scripture says such a thing……… BUT IF IT DID, it woudn't mean anything more than Israel being called by the name of YHWH.Plus, you have the added problem that IF Jesus was given YHWH's name, it proves…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,22:16)This is good from Ignatius…………Yes it is. And once again, it doesn't say a single thing about Jesus being the MOST HIGH God, does it?In fact, once again Ignatius DISTINGUISHES Jesus FROM the MOST HIGH God, right?

Quote (2besee @ Mar. 25 2013,22:00)I do not go to the Father and picture 'two Fathers' or 'two Gods'. Do you?Nope.Quote (2besee @ Mar. 25 2013,22:00)I know that others are also called 'gods'. I know that you know this………….. because you have said so many times in different threads.  I know you also know that Jesus is one of these…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,21:59)there is one God, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased Him that sent Him.Are you unable to see that there is ONE God, who made Himself know through His Son, who is now His eternal spokesman (since his God…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,21:50)I can't speak for others Mike.So then you haven't noticed that people like Gene, Marty, Kerwin, and 2B are so afraid of acknowledging the TWO gods mentioned in 1:1, that they fabricate their own false doctrines to adjust for this fear?    Hmmmm……………….Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,21:50)Are you a…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2013,21:48)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,22:19)Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,03:39)Case closed because you ignore a huge glaring plank and concentrate on a speck that even if it was written as Jesus only is not even proof that Jesus is the Most High God.Amen to that!  Unfortunately, Kathi also does the same thing with the…[Read more]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 25 2013,01:47)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,13:04)Charles, to me it seems like Paul is equating the death of Christ with the death all men die.  I see no hint of any difference between the death Jesus died, and the death the rest of us die……… do you? Mike,TO YOU IT SEEMS!!!NO TO ALL OF US CORRUPTED MORTAL CREATURES…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2013,21:21)Gene,If I asked you to name your roots would you list the names of your children or the names of your parents?Well done.

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2013,03:39)Case closed because you ignore a huge glaring plank and concentrate on a speck that even if it was written as Jesus only is not even proof that Jesus is the Most High God.Amen to that!  Unfortunately, Kathi also does the same thing with the scriptures.  In her never-ending search for little specks of scripture that s…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 24 2013,22:09)Kathi and Mike,When Jesus said about Judas, “one of you is devil”, was he saying:1) That Judas was the Devil (Satan).2) That Judas was a devil (excluding Satan)3) That Judas had the characteristics or nature of the Devil4) Another explanationWhat is your choice?#2 and #3, since they both go hand in hand.But in the…[Read more]

Quote (abe @ Mar. 25 2013,20:52)18I will not leave you comfortless:     I    will come to you.Yes Abe,Jesus will not only ask that the Father send the Spirit as a helper, but he will also come to us whenever two or more are gathered in his name.He will never desert those who maintain the word of his God and the testimony that he himself bro…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2013,21:43)Did you miss this:”Jesus Christ, our God and Saviour;”It seems to me that t8 already addressed that in the post I quoted 2 posts above this one.Yes, in Biblical language, Jesus is a god. Just like angels and certain men are gods in scripture.And yes, we accept Jesus as the savior God sent into the world.So…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2013,21:47)Ignatius in other writings calls the Son, the eternal Word. Do you believe that the Son was the eternal Word, t8?Did he say Jesus IS the eternal Word……… or HAS BEEN the eternal Word from eternity?Because I believe what Paul wrote: Since Jesus died and was raised, he cannot die again. His God has given…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 24 2013,21:34)The most logical thing to point out here is if Ignatius believes that the Father is God and Jesus is his son as attested in the second quoted paragraph, then Ignatius is obviously not saying that Jesus is God in the sense that I think you are hoping he is saying it, because if that were the case, he would be…[Read more]

Quote (2besee @ Mar. 24 2013,21:28)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,13:03)As for your comment, I don't think it takes any amount of “scholary/Greek studies” to know that “the one God” cannot possibly be with “the one God”.  I think a kindergarten education should suffice to know this.'There is ONE GOD, and one Mediator between God and Man, the MAN,…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2013,21:03)Mike,you asked:Quote Do you agree that John 1:1 speaks of TWO gods, one of whom was with the other?  YES or NO?Yes…………Quote Do you agree that the theos in part b is “the uncreated cause of all things”?  YES or NO?Both theos are together the uncreated cause of all things.Okay, so you, me, and Origen a…[Read more]