Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2013,22:41)The rabbinical understanding of the “Holy Spirit” has a certain degree of personification, but it remains, “a quality belonging to God, one of his attributes”.Bravo! I couldn't have worded it better myself. I'm going to save that one.But Kerwin, do you suppose God's “son” is merely one of His “qualities”, or…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:48)Let's not forget that fathers naturally have a position higher than their sons.And let's not forget that gods naturally have a higher position than those they are the god of. So Jesus is lesser than his God and Father on at least two counts. And even though Jesus is “a god”, he is not “The Most High…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:36)Why do you refer to Heb 1:8 as 'a' theos instead of 'the' theos?Why does scripture refer to the Father as “a god”? Anyone who is “THE god” of anything is, by necessity, “A god”, right?And it is abundantly clear from Heb 1:9 that this particular god, who was mentioned in verse 8, has a god of his own – a god…[Read more]

Oh, and don't forget that the nation of Israel was also “called by the name of YHWH”. Does that make THEM “YHWH Himself”?Kathi, stop looking for specks and ignoring the planks.

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:32)Mike,Gen 15 clearly says that the Word of Yahweh is Yahweh.And many people in the OT refer to the angel God sent as “YHWH”.Are you saying that Jesus is one of God's many angels? Because you can't have it both ways, Kathi.

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:11)And Israel saw the great strong hand of God, what He did to the Egyptians. They feared God and believed in His Word and in His servant Moses.So would this “Word” have been the angel of God that God sent ahead of the Israelites?

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,09:10)There is a difference between those sons who are merely called theos and the only one who was begotten as theos.Agreed.  Jesus was the firstborn, while all the others came after.  Jesus has been endowed with much more, since he received the firstborn's share of the inheritance, as was customary in Hebrew c…[Read more]

Quote (jammin @ April 19 2013,17:54)LOLwhat are you talking about mike? LOLi told you already it depends on how you use the word beingSee what I mean, Kathi? More games. Okay jammin, the following is from Dictionary.com. It is the 5th definition they offer for the word “being”:a living thing: strange, exotic beings that live in the depths of…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2013,17:21)Quote (abe @ April 19 2013,22:26)Love of money?Abe,Mike is making that connection, not me.When I state Love is God or God is Love it should be self evident I am obviously not speaking of the love of money.Okay, so switch “love of money” to a more pure kind of love, such as the “love of a child”. Can atheists…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2013,06:29)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2013,08:10)God is power, right?  So do you also claim that power is God?  YES or NO?And if “NO”, why not?  Please explain.Mike,I answered a number of your question, even those that seem inane. If I missed some I am not sure which ones they are.Okay Kerwin,From a JW pu…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,21:44)Now Mike, jammin made it clear to you that it depends on how you use the word 'being.'No Kathi,He hasn't “made it clear”. In fact, he is going WAY out of his way so he doesn't have to “make it clear”. He is playing games, because he knows that the reality of what his doctrine teaches is too ludicrous to say…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,19:52)Two individual beings.Okay Kathi. I too believe that the Father and the Son are TWO individual beings – not two “persons in one being”. (The latter is what jammin believes, but Kerwin and I feel he is too embarrassed of his own belief to come right out and say it.)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,08:39)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2013,20:31)Yeah Pierre.  It's hard to read Heb 1:8 and still refuse to believe Jesus is a god.It is hard to believe that you have trouble connecting the theos of Heb 1:8 who is the' Word' of John 1:1 with the 'Word of Jehovah' in Gen 15:1-7 who calls Himself Jehovah, with John…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,08:47)Mike,Actually Heb 1:8 has the article 'the' as in 'the God.'Yes, I know Kathi. You snooze, you lose. Kerwin already pointed that out pages ago (although I've know about the word “ho” in that verse for years, thanks to discussions with Jack and Keith).But don't forget that the god mentioned in verse 8 has a…[Read more]

Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,21:36)I am not trying to teach it to others I am only giving my understanding from what has been shown to me.Fair enough.  Sorry I came down so hard.Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,21:36)I wanted truth, even if it was not what I expected. Even if it was Trinitarian.I feel the same way.Quote (2besee @ April 17…[Read more]

Quote (abe @ April 18 2013,18:31)Hi Mike,God is Love= GodLove of God= Son of GodI thought about this and hope this will help you.Thanks for the effort, but no, it doesn't make a lick of sense to me, Abe.peace

Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2013,23:06)My topic is God's Love of which the love of money has no part.Kerwin,The love of money is love, PERIOD. So to say “Love is God” is to INCLUDE the love of money, the love of pornography, the love of violence, the love of evil things, etc.You can't say that you love God more than another person might love money.…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2013,21:43)Hi Mike, Do you believe we all preexisted then?No Ed.  I don't believe any human being pre-existed their flesh except for Jesus.Perhaps the word “pre-existence” is misleading.  It conjures up images of, In my past life, I was a flower!   Jesus' existence has always been since God brought him forth as the first of…[Read more]

Quote (abe @ April 17 2013,21:00)1. The Lamb married Holy Jerusalem. 2. Holy Jerusalem is the CHURCH.3. Holy Jerusalem is not God.4. New Jerusalem was born from the Dead.1. This WILL happen, but it hasn't happened yet, IMO.2. I don't know.3. Agreed.4. I don't know.Abe, what does any of this have to do with our current discussion?

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2013,19:41)The two who are called Yahweh as individuals are together one Yahweh unity.And is this “unity” ONE individual being? Or is it a unity made up of TWO individual beings?