Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 22 2013,09:53)It is not in John 1:18It is in John 6:46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.Actually, it is a combination of them both, jb.If 1:18 says no man has seen God AT ANY TIME, and Jehovah Himself told Moses that no man can see Him and live, and 6:46 says that Jesus HAS…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 22 2013,09:39)We know this because Paul tells us that Jesus BEING in the form of God..took on the form of a servant.You and Mike want to read it as..Jesus WAS in the form of God..but changed into the form of a servant.I know Mike doesn't, but you, t8, really do not see the difference in the above two examples?jb,Was Jesus…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 22 2013,09:34)I do not believe that Elijah ever at any point stopped existing as Elijah. So, it will not be a preexistent being..It will be Elijah, just as he always was!!So when Elijah again comes to the earth, will he have pre-existed this second earthly appearance? YES or NO?

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 22 2013,09:34)Again, since he IS Elijah..he will come in his own spirit..NOT the spirit OF himself!!Doesn't “his own” mean the same thing as “of himself”?

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 22 2013,09:27)Reread my post. I said that the MAJORITY of the 208 occurrences of the word “owlam” means something along the lines of “eternity” such as everlasting………….Re-read MY post. The Hebrew word “owlam” NEVER means “from eternity”. In some cases, like Ps 90:2, we can imagine it means “from eternity”, because we…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 22 2013,08:59)Yes..and it is equally possible that you are the one that is wrong!! I have always been honest enough to admit that I could be wrong. I do not believe that I have heard that statement from you or t8; and yet, it is my integrity being questioned?Which carries more weight?  One who continually SAYS he would admit it…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 22 2013,05:42)Chronologically speaking to say that he emptied himself right after he existed in the form of God, is one way to get that concept across. I mean it strongly suggests that he emptied himself of what was just mentioned, otherwise if emptying yourself stands alone, (no particular order), then it has no real meaning at…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 22 2013,09:06)Your belief is..John WAS rich (but gave up his riches and became poor)but made himself of no reputation, working beside the poor.This is where you're slipping, jb.If I say, “John, although he was rich, worked with the poor”, the word “was” does NOT speak one way or the other about whether John later became poor, or…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,00:12)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,04:38)But LITERALLY, nobody's words are really living entities, right?Mike,Correct……….So if even God's words aren't LITERALLY living entities, who is the Word of God that became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?Because that doesn't seem…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,21:52)From what I have seen so far, it is you and Mike that need to change words in order to “prove your point.”Rejected! BTW, were you ever going to tell me why you think Paul would summarize the important events of Jesus' life, but only put SOME OF THEM in chronological order?Would YOU ever do that if asked to…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,21:33)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,09:20)Malachi 4:5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes.Matthew 17:10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”Matthew 17:12However, I say to you that Elijah has alrea…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,21:29)Jesus, whose GOING FORTH (not origins) are from long ago.Well, I'm glad that you at least have come to know that “owlam” doesn't mean “from eternity”.  We did a thread about this a couple of years ago.  A lot of us did some research into it, and it seems that the Hebrew culture didn't even have a word for “…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,21:22)Again, Jesus never stopped..BEING in the form of God, He ONLY did not try to be equal with God. As evidence by, He emptied Himself of His desires and took on the ROLE of a servant.You forgot a line.Actually, he emptied himself, took on the role of a servant, and was made in the likeness of a human being.That last…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,21:05)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,08:08)Your fellow non-preexisters Kerwin and Marty have accepted that “was existing” is implied in Phil 2, since the statement as a whole speaks of a time in the past when Jesus was existing in the form of God, but emptied himself and died on a stake.I believe that Paul was talking…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,21:05)The whole point is you are saying that “he was rich” but then he “became” poor!!No. I am saying that at a time in the past when he WAS rich, he worked side by side with the poor.Your example makes no comment whatsoever about whether John became poor later on, or remains wealthy to this very day.Instead, your…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,21:05)I understand what you are saying completely..I just disagree!!That statement right there takes a BIG load off, jb.Now you only have to tell me WHY you think Paul would summarize the important events of Jesus' existence, putting SOME OF THEM in order, and others OUT OF ORDER.1.  WHY do you think he would do such a…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 21 2013,19:02)So you realize that “was existing/existed” is implied from the past tense form of the rest of the statement, right?We agree that all the things Paul mentioned in verses 6-11 had already happened in the past, despite the fact Paul used the present tense word “existing”, right?YES or NO on these two, please.

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 19 2013,19:44)If you want other gods, you can have them.  You can make any thing or anyone “a god”, but all that is idolatry.I also wanted to address this comment from before.We all know from scripture that the Israelites were often called on by Jehovah to destroy the idols of the nations as they were dispossessing them from…[Read more]

You are SOOOOOOO close, my friend.  All you have to do now is lose the alteration “so-called” – which isn't actually in any Hebrew or Greek scripture in the entire Bible.Let's adjust your statement to reflect the fact that you don't want to be using man-made additions to the scriptures:“There exist gods that people worship as gods”, but for me,…[Read more]

From the JWs:Gr., Na·zo·rai′os; probably from Heb. ne′tser, meaning “sprout,” hence, figuratively “offspring.” See Isa 11:1 and ftn, “Sprout.”From NETNotes:Judging by the difficulty of finding OT quotations (as implied in the plural “prophets”) to match the wording here, it appears that the author was using a current expression of scorn that con…[Read more]