Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,12:48)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2013,05:36)Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,11:52)Why should I put any man on a pedestal?You shouldn't.  So why DO you do it with the MEN who produced the KJV – as if they, being mere men like us, were unable to make a mistake?Mike B.You believe the gospels.Are you putting the apostles on…[Read more]

journey,Where do you weigh in on all this? Do you understand that “the Word was a god” is one of the possible ways to translate the Greek words of John 1:1c?Do you believe like Wakeup, that we can reverse the order of the words John wrote, and claim that “God” somehow changed and became “not God”?What are your thoughts?

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 01 2013,20:21)1.The Word was God; (John's words).2. And the Word was with God. (John's words).Actually, “and the Word was God” is but one of the two faithful ways those Greek words can be translated.  The other is, “and the Word was a god”.But tell me Wakeup, why do you always reverse the order of the words when you explain…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:20)All living creatures will be giving the same praise and honor to both the Father and the Son. You will too someday.Rev 5Show me the word “same” in the verse to which you allude.

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:18)Are you aware that He was the eternal life, the wisdom that the Father possessed in the beginning?Why do you assume that “in the beginning” means “from eternity”?It doesn't mean that in Genesis 1:1, does it?You are right though, that Jesus is a possession of his and our God, Jehovah.

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2013,13:17)If it is correctly translated as the city being called Jehovah our Righteousness, that only means that the city was named after the Son, it doesn't mean that the city is the Son.You mean like Jesus being named after God Almighty wouldn't make him BE God Almighty?

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:29)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2013,16:12)I wanted to know if “the Word of YHWH” was ever said in the targums to be WITH “YHWH”.In other words, did they ALWAYS change “YHWH” to “the Word of YHWH” – to the point that “YHWH Himself” is not even mentioned at all?  Or are there scriptures where they clearly outline…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:26)Eternal nature as an always existent in the past nature doesn't seem to be in a class of it's own within the spirit beings realm according to your post. Why is that?Why would it be? Only the Father and Creator of all is said to be from eternity. (And actually, even He isn't specifically said to be from…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:04)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 02 2013,18:59)I read that Jesus is the firstborn of a bunch of spirit sons of God.  I read that he was the firstborn of all creation, and the beginning of the creation by God.  I read that God brought him forth as the first of His works.  I read that his origins are from ancient da…[Read more]

Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 01 2013,21:11)Quote Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, **The everlasting Father**, The Prince of Peace.The son of God is called the everlasting Father?Can you explain?wakeup. Yes: See…[Read more]

Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 01 2013,19:27)Quote 6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.Jehovah says HIS name shall be called Jehovah our righteousness!! That would be the messiah's name, btw.None of that disproves the many facts presented in my last…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 01 2013,15:08)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2013,16:12)Also Kathi,You didn't address one of my questions.  I wanted to know if “the Word of YHWH” was ever said in the targums to be WITH “YHWH”.In other words, did they ALWAYS change “YHWH” to “the Word of YHWH” – to the point that “YHWH Himself” is not even mentioned at all?…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 01 2013,15:04)From what I can tell, the Father and the Son are in the same classification…the most high classification.And what tells you that?  I read that Jesus is the firstborn of a bunch of spirit sons of God.  I read that he was the firstborn of all creation, and the beginning of the creation by God.  I read that Go…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 01 2013,13:42)Quote In his now classic Two Powers in Heaven, Alan Segal examines rabbinic evidence about early manifestations of the “two powers” heresy within Judaism. Segal sheds light upon the development of and relationships among early Christianity, Gnosticism, and Merkabah mysticism and demonstrates that belief in the…[Read more]

Wakeup,This one is all yours. I've better things to do than to go through this stuff with Kerwin and Gene all over again.If you're interested, you can check out my thread Do Angels Have Bodies? There you'll find over 500 pages of this discussion.

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,14:58)……..it is commonly known that spirits neither can be touched or eat as they have no body even when they have a form.It might be commonly BELIEVED, but it surely isn't “commonly KNOWN”. Angels have eaten and have been touched in scripture, and angels are ministering spirits.

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,14:58)As far as I can tell your teaching is the newest on this subject as the debate for centuries has been whether angels have bodies naturally united with them, assume a body when needed, or have no body at all.That seems a senseless debate, since the bodies of angels are clearly described in many scriptures.How many…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,14:30)The word is “psuchikos” and means “of or belonging to the breath” according to BibleStudyTools.com. It is derive from the word “Psuche”, which is often translated soul.Kerwin,1. Is it your understanding that BODIES have souls of their own? Because my understanding is that a PERSON has a soul, not that a BODY…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 01 2013,15:14)Mike,Do you honor the Son as much as you honor Gabriel who serves God? If you give the Son more honor, why?I give MORE honor to Jesus than to Gabriel.  They are both spirit servants of God who have helped human beings on many occasions, but Jesus is higher-ranking than Gabriel, and Jesus has done much MORE…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,13:33)Mike,I actually asked wakeup and want him to answer for himself though I will address at least some of your answer.Quote 1Corinthians 1548 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the…[Read more]