Carmel, NO!  At the time of Gen 1:1-2, there was only water from which the heaven and earth would EVENTUALLY be formed.  The act of creation begins in Gen 1:3 – with the creation of light and the 24-hour day.  Heaven wasn’t created until day 2, and the earth wasn’t created until day 3.

Let me play the same nonsense with you…

Genesis 2:4… [Read more]

Adam:  Your statement “Yahweh is the Creator of everything, including those gods of the other nations” is purely the Christian one as this world is having a number of religions and mythologies on gods.

In which verse(s) of the Christian NT can I learn what I wrote above?

My statement comes from the teachings of the OT – and is supported by many…[Read more]

Kathi, you addressed the third post on this page.  Please address the first two now.  Thanks.

Mike:  …if there is a god that no one has ever seen, and an only-begotten god “which we have seen with our own eyes and touched with our own hands” (1 John 1:1), then they are TWO different gods – “Yahweh Unity” or not.

LU: Or they are Father and Son, two different persons with the same nature acting as one God, manifested in many ways with o…

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I actually don’t even know what you’re talking about, Carmel.  Nor do I care.  Let me give you an example of how I see the nonsense you so often post…

Isaiah 65:17… For behold, I will create new heaven and a new earth…

Isaiah 66:22…  For as the new heaven and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me…
Tell me
O Carnal Mi…[Read more]

Carmel: YOU ARE A GENIUS WITH RESPECT TO YOUR CARNAL-MINDED REASONING!

Thanks.  Of course, neither of us have any other reasoning with which to sort things out.  You can CLAIM that you have some special “spiritual reasoning” on your side, but let’s face it… we are men with God-given common sense.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Carnal rea…[Read more]

Gene:  Mike…..look up the word used there as “first”  it actually means “foremost” or, THE ONE BEFORE, as in  the former one,   it’s not implying the first one “ever” created as you falsely,  “assume”.

Yes, the word can refer to a “previous” or “former” thing.  But here is how the word is translated in the NASB, the NET, and the AKJV…

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Carmel:  TOHU VA BOHU…

As your own source acknowledges, the actual meaning of either word is unknown.  “Empty” and “void” are the most common translations – and fit well in Gen 1:2.

“Empty” and “void” are inherently evil or chaotic words.  If your gas tank is “empty and void” and you have a long way to go, that’s bad.  If your gas tank is “em…[Read more]

Carmel: NOW, DID GOD THE FATHER, PERFECT, CREATE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH IN Genesis 1:1 PERFECT? YES OR NO?

The was no heaven or earth in Gen 1:1 – perfect or otherwise.  The heaven was created on day 2, and the earth was created on day 3.  And at the end of day 6, God observed all he had created, and said that it was “Very good” – not “Perfect”.

Carmel: Mike, guess what I’m going to do!….

I WILL TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION FOR A CHANGE AND I ASK YOU:

FIND ANOTHER SCRIPTURE THAT PRODUCES ANOTHER  SIMILAR STATEMENT LIKE

“GOD MADE/CREATED/FORMED/ESTABLISHED/FURNISHED, THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN” 

READY, SET,  GO!

Okay…

Isaiah 45:18… For this is what the LORD says— he who created the h…[Read more]

LU:  It is applied to Jesus, for sure but in the sense as one of the kings in the line of the Davidic kings so, yes, it is applied to Jesus as the ultimate Davidic son turned king but it is applied to others in the line of the Davidic kings also.

LU:  Is Jesus the only begotten son of God or one of many begotten sons of God?

You tell me.  Yo…[Read more]

Mike:  What particular word in Gen 1:1 indicates that there is a person (or persons) mentioned in that verse?

LU:  elohim

Thank you.  So then you agree that the Hebrew word “elohim” (god or gods) refers to a PERSON or PERSONS, in Gen 1:1, right?

Genesis 1:2… Now the earth was empty and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And…[Read more]

Mike:  If you want to defend Berean against my scripturally-backed arguments, then you should probably start by giving him a valid (ie: explicitly supported by scripture) explanation to why Peter and John, in their prayer in Acts 4, identify Jesus as the servant of the God who created the heaven, earth, sea, and all that is in them – n…

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Proclaimer:  “Immediately after the distress of those days “`the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. ‘ “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.

You have quoted both Isaiah and our…[Read more]

Proclaimer: Here is a verse that mentions ‘days’ and it could be referencing 24 hour periods. But it is clearly not specific.

The plural word “days” – in and of itself – shows that it is literal days.

Proclaimer:  It is in reality communicating an undefined period of time or the time of stress which could be any amount of hours or days. Agree…

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Proclaimer:  How many hours is the seventh day? You obviously have to say 24 hours, but God rested on the seventh day, so if you say 24 hours, then you are saying that God is resting no more. So again

How many hours is the seventh day of creation?

The seventh day is also a literal 24-hour day.  We know this because it is the word “day” a…[Read more]

Mike:  PROCLAIMER, DOES THE PLURAL WORD “DAYS” EVER REFER TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN LITERAL DAYS IN THE BIBLE? YES OR NO? AND IF YES, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE(S), INCLUDING THEIR CLEAR AND UNDENIABLE INDICATION THAT THE “DAYS” IN QUESTION ARE, WITHOUT A DOUBT, NOT LITERAL DAYS.

Proclaimer:  Not sure. I could research it, but I honestly am not sure. But…

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LU:  Mike, when the word following dia is genitive and a person, then “by” can be used…

But “through” can also be used – and IS used MUCH more often than the handful of very old translations that have “by”, right?

But instead of straining the gnat and swallowing the camel, how about you address post #932011 – six posts above this one?  Thank…[Read more]

LU:  Psalm 2:7 actually is about the Davidic/Son/king Covenant when the offspring of David is installed as king in line with the promise to David. It is not about the firstborn sonship before creation. So we are not told when the firstborn became the firstborn before creation.

It appears that most of the commentators say it is about…[Read more]

Carmel, I just typed “glad it was empty” into the search box, and here’s what I saw on the first page of results…

Should I try “happy it was empty” now?  How about “thank God it was empty”?

Your claim is debunked.  “Void” and “empty” are neither good nor bad in and of themselves.