And if there was no difference between create and begat/born, then we might as well throw away this scripture because it implies that Jesus was not created if he is the Word of God that was with God in the beginning:

He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come…[Read more]

So if all men are created by God, then we’re all men begotten of God?
You’ve got it backwards. All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs. So yes, all those who were begotten are CREATIONS, but not all creations were begotten.

So while being born of God doesn’t nullify our created status………..
You’ve just answered the ent…[Read more]

To be fair, I could only see one translation with the word ‘create’ and you probably already knew that. This list was a straight copy and paste from Bible Hub with emphasis from me.
Okay, now quote that same list from the same source, but do it for Genesis 14:19. You’ll see a lot more “Creators” in that list. And you’ll also see the older tra…[Read more]

Wakeup,

Read 1 Corinthians 15:27……… ONCE AGAIN. It says God placed EVERYTHING under Jesus’ feet. But does it mean LITERALLY EVERYTHING? YES or NO? (Hint: Paul gives us the answer in that very verse.)

Now, please tell me the SCRIPTURAL teaching:
1. The Word became FLESH when he came down from heaven?
2. The Word became a CREATURE…[Read more]

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven – the Son of Man.

How many scriptures does it take before Kerwin believes the truth?

You use Word as if it is a name Jesus is called by but he was not called by it in Scripture except one place in Revelation……..
Correction: The only time that I, Kerwin, believe Jesus is called “the Word” is in Revelation.

Jesus is also called by that same title/name in John 1:1, 1:14, and 1 John 1:1. (There may be others as well, like 2…[Read more]

Mike B.

Jesus the man; was made like unto his brethren, he was made flesh; means creature.
But He was not a creature before He was made flesh.
He was next to God; and humbled himself to be made unto a creature.
Wakeup, you and t8 are adding your own thoughts into the scriptures. The SCRIPTURAL teaching is that Jesus was “made FLESH”……. not…[Read more]

Mike,

I know because trinitarism is not a Jewish belief while what I wrote is. John was not part of making a new religion, that cam later.
Kerwin, I asked you if “the Word” in Rev 19 is “the preexistent Law”. What is your answer?

That’s not the teaching, Kerwin. We are not told that the Word “became flesh THROUGH Jesus”. We are told that the Word became the flesh BEING known as “Jesus”.

If you understood Scripture correctly then you would know it was.

I understand it just fine, Kerwin………. WITHOUT all the twists and turns you have to ADD to it.

The subject i…[Read more]

The difference is this. Your mother begat you, but did not create you.
God created you, but did not begat you.
Genesis 4:1
Now the man had marital relations with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. Then she said, “I have created a man with the help of the LORD!”

Also, consider………….
Psalm 90:2
Before the mou…[Read more]

Okay then, Kathi. 🙂

I’ll give you the gist of it:

Isaiah 9:7
He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom… from that time on and forever.

Luke 1:32-33
The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever…….

So unless God Almighty will rule forever from the thr…[Read more]

It is actually know that John, a Jew, was just using the word logos for Law as according to the rabbis of that time the Law(Logos) was preexistent.
How is that “known”, Kerwin? It’s the first I’m hearing of it. Was John talking about the “pre-existent Law” in Rev 19:13?

Yes we are begotten of our parents, and created by God, but see the subtle difference there? Created because we came through something/someone. Begotten as a direct derivative of our parents, but not begotten from God at that point.
And after we are begotten by God, do we cease to be “creations” of God? If not, there is no difference. Besides,…[Read more]

Mike B.

Paul also said that Jesus is the first born of the dead.
He was the first resurrected from the dead.
Correct. He is called “the firstborn of the dead” because he WAS the first to be raised from the dead. Now, use that same easy understanding to figure out why he is called “the firstborn of EVERY CREATURE”. Get it? “Firstborn of dead”…[Read more]

Mike B.

God simply calls them the four beasts they also are created, maybe the first.
1. So the fact that we aren’t given their NAMES doesn’t mean they don’t truly exist, right? Thank you.

2. If they were the first, then they could be called “the firstborn of every creature”, and “the beginning of the creation by God”, right? 🙂 But of…[Read more]

Is God “greater than” His Word, like His Word himself clearly told us? Or are they “equally mighty”, like YOU have told us?

Yes, as became flesh first through Jesus and then in those that believe in his name.
That’s not the teaching, Kerwin. We are not told that the Word “became flesh THROUGH Jesus”. We are told that the Word became the flesh BEING known as “Jesus”.

It was “the Word” who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God’s only begotten Son.…[Read more]

Can you explain how he existed in the form of God, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men?
No, can you explain electricity?
All we needed to hear was the “NO” part, sonofGod.

And since you can’t explain how the “ALREADY HUMAN” Jesus emptied himself and WAS MADE in the likeness of a human…[Read more]

So yes as you say, there was a time (if I can even use that word) when there was only God. At some point, God begat another to be with him….
Agreed. There existed one sentient being, and then God caused there to be a second sentient being. Whether you prefer the word “begot” or “created”, the meaning is the same. Anytime a new sentient person…[Read more]

Plus, they/you could not mention His name as a created creature.
All heavenly creatures carries a name given. There is not one creature nameless.
As long as they can not provide a name for that created creature; He does not exist.
So then the four creatures in Revelation 4:6 don’t really exist, because they are not “named”? Come on, Wakeup.…[Read more]