Hi Thinker,You said:Quote “Who upholds all things by the WORD of HIS POWER.”Where does Jesus get his power?  You said:Quote The expression “My God” may sometimes refer to one's having a covenantal, familial relationship without the master servant idea.It's hard to even think of a response to someone who thinks “my God” can be interchanged with,…[Read more]

Hi Thinker,You said:Quote Who said that the Father cannot talk anymore! Hebrews 1 says that the Father speaks through the Son Hence the title, “the Word”.  Is Jesus the only one the God speaks through?  If Jesus is present, must all words spoken be attributed to him?You said:Quote The Father is still Jesus' God but not His Lord. A nobel can be my &…[Read more]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 19 2010,05:49)If someone wants to discuss then yes lets discussHi Bod,You said, “Can you show me where it says that Jesus was the Word?”This is how I read it:1. In the beginning, the Word was with God.2. The Word became flesh.Jesus, the Son of Man, also came from heaven and became flesh.3. Jesus was given a name…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2010,15:21)He knew He was a divine being and realized that he was merely dust and ash compared to who he was speaking with and he also knew that who he was speaking with could destroy the land of Sodom.  He also knew that who he was speaking with would not destroy the righteous with the wicked.Hi Kathi,We are dust and…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2010,12:27)If you woud pay attention you would know that trinitarians do not argue from the word elohim alone but from the use of plural pronouns such as “US” and “OUR.” There is indeed only one God. But He has revealed Himself as a plural unity which the plural pronouns make unmistakeably clear.Hi Thinker,One more…[Read more]

Hi Thinker,You said:Quote The plural of majesty view is not valid because there are no examples of it in the scriptures or in ancient, semitic literature. You can't just grab a theory out of thin air. But the trinitarians can?  I see.You said:Quote Just give examples from scripture Mike. Am I asking too much of you? Take your own advice, Jack.…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 17 2010,01:52)Where does my source say that the plural of majesty view is valid? It simply says that it is “one view.” The “plural unity” view is also “one view.”Hi Thinker,So if the view you agree with is valid, then so is the other one, right?You said:Quote First it says that “Scripture itself” conveys that the term…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2010,17:23)Mike,I think the Son was more than a messenger of the Most High God, He was also the agent by which His God did things.Hi Kathi,Yet you think that the messenger OF Jehovah that is written about is “Jehovah Junior”, or Jesus.

Ok Thinker,I can't resist.  You talk so much trash without shame.I said:  There is NO SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE that says Jesus received the “position” of the Son of God by a decree.Answer to the BOLDED part, smarty.I said:  There is NO SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE that says Jesus received the “title” of begotten Son of God.Answer to th…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 17 2010,05:57)Mike, Your argument is circular dude! Stephen does not “help” me but he confirms my conclusion. The Messenger was the Lord. That's why Stephen said he heard “the Lord's voice.” The words came from Jehovah because the Messenger was Jehovah.Hi Thinker,Okay. Follow it through for me, please. God Almighty came…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2010,13:12)I don't think that you ever gave me your answer as to who Abraham is talking to that is named Jehovah in this chapter. All the bolded “Lord” words are Strong's #3068-Jehovah.Hi Kathi,I think the same thing that Stephen thought. The words of Jehovah coming through a messenger. Think about it. If Jesus is…[Read more]

Hi Thinker,This is getting really old, man.  There is NO SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE that says Jesus received the “position” of the Son of God by a decree.  There is NO SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE that says Jesus received the “title” of begotten Son of God.  I have an 8 year old son.  Do you think he is my son by “title” only, and that I g…[Read more]

Hi Thinker,Martian is right.  Why wouldn't you just post on the thread that was already there.  I will answer intelligently to any point you made that was addressed to me.  But first you:1.  Does or does not your source say, “another view is that the plural wording is used to denote majesty. kings traditionally use the plural form in speaking of…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 15 2010,15:16)TO ALL:On page 2 of the original “Echad and Elohym” thread Martian  cited an excerpt from the TWOT which he thinks supports the plural of majesty theory of the word elohim.Martian posted:“The Theological Workbook of the Old Testament says,This word , which is generally viewed as the plural of eloah , is…[Read more]

Hi Thinker, I just got this from your post:Quote From Colossians 1:16 we know that Christ, God's Son, was at work in the creation.”Who? That's right, God's Son. The one who was God's Son before creation. Or did they really mean, “God's decreed, soon to be after he is raised from the dead, Son”?You said:Quote Everything comes through the Son…[Read more]

Hi Thinker,You said:Quote You have proven nothing because you argue from “monogenes” which does not mean “begotten.”  So use your definition then.  It proves that Jesus was “the Only Son after God's kind” before he came to earth because God SENT His “only Son after God's kind” to earth.  You said:Quote Everything comes through the Son NOW. This wa…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 15 2010,11:37)The Messenger who appeared to Moses in the burning bush is Jehovah God. He claimed to be the “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” Moses asked Him His name and He said, “I am that I am” (Exodus 3).Hi Thinker,Do you think it was really the angel doing the talking?  The disciple Stephen didn't.  Remember the g…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 14 2010,21:12)I'm not going to have time to answer this post before I go on holiday with my family. I'll try to get it done when I return…Hopefully someone can continue Mike's Bible lessons in my absence? – Thethinker?, WJ?, Lightenup?Hi Paul,I wondered where you ran off to. The thinker is busy educating me on the fine…[Read more]

Hi WJ,You said:Quote I have already explained that if John would have added the definite article to John 1:1c then the reader would perceive that John was saying the Word was the Father! By not using the definite article and using the word “Theos” John is able to convey that Jesus is not the Father yet Jesus was in very nature God (Phil 2:6), or…[Read more]

Hi Thinker,Good.  Maybe you can come back fresh and show me how right hand means equality. Our debate is to investigate whether or not Jesus is God Almighty.  I can prove he's not without the “begotten” or “firstborn” points.  So let's move on – we have been at a stalemate on these for a long time.  Everything is repetition.To answer your quo…[Read more]