Hi Nick,WHO was given as a firstfruits offering? 1 John 4:9 says it was the ALREADY only begotten Son of God.mike

Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2010,12:11)Hi Mike,I agree with you here…yeah! A big problem that I see with those who say the Son was preeminent over all creation after His resurrection or at the Jordan is this; who was preeminent over all creation before that and where is it written.Hi Kathi,Thanks for the support! You list one problem. The…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2010,11:31)Hi MB, He was given as a first fruits offering .Hi Nick,So he wasn't the Messiah at all when he was on earth?mike

Hi JA,You have gotten very arrogant and insulting ever since you started that debate with WJ.  I've mentioned it to you, and so have many others.  You need to check yourself, man.  This is the stuff you're saying to someone you used to call “brother”.Quote You ignored the examples I gave of retrospectiveness.Can I ask why? Is it because it made se…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2010,17:27)Hi JA, Being begotten has nothing to do with being raised.Acts 13 like acts 2 shows that Jesus is the Son and messiah in retrospect because he was raised fulfilling prophecyHi Nick,I'm unaware of any scripture where God says he will send someone who, after he dies and is raised, will be His Messiah “in…[Read more]

Hi Nick,Actually, John 17.18 is only a good point for people like you, who think Jesus was begotten at the Jordan. It is no help to JA and Roo, who think it was when he was raised.mike

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2010,15:01)The Son was sent into the world but so are we.Hi Nick,That's a good point. But in what sense did God GIVE His only begotten Son?peace and love,mike

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2010,06:59)Hi MB, He is not the SON OF MAN in Ezekiel. All men are sons of Adam Jesus went to great lengths to show he was a man but men disagree.Hi Nick,Read the whole post. I'm making a joke. Besides, the challenge is for you to prove that Jesus IS the Son of Man in the NT. ps Jesus is a heavenly spirit man now…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2010,06:55)Mike,you wrote:Quote This is what you trinitarians and “binarians” do to those of us for whom “there is but one God, the Father”. Can you define 'binarians' for us?  Please provide your reference, thanks!Hi Kathi,You told me one time that you worship a “binity”. I extrapolated “binarian”. It was a funny (I…[Read more]

Hi Kathi,Here is my understanding of Zec 2.  There are only two who speak.  And it isn't even clear if one of the messengers is Jesus or just an angel.Red=Zechariah speakingPurple=First angelGreen=Second angelBold Green=Direct quotes from JehovahAnd I proceeded to raise my eyes and see; and, look! there was a man, and in his hand a measuring r…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ June 09 2010,16:20)Mike,I don't deal with phylosophical debate, So have no interest in what 'roo' said or what a man down the pub/bar told you.My interest is in the Scriptures.Everything we need to know is in the Scriptures.Okay JA and NickHere are some scriptures.  Tell me again how you can read these and think Jesus wasn't…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 09 2010,10:47)JA,Jehovah told the people not to provoke His Messenger (Exodus 23:20-25). God called His Messenger “Jehovah your God” (vs. 25). We know this was Jesus!Unfounded conjecture, Roo. See my new post in Echad.mike

Quote (Lightenup @ June 11 2010,11:12)Mike,You'll keep it short??I think we are at an impass.  I am going to table this discussion for the time being if that is ok, until the Lord gives me something for you.  I'll let you know.Thanks, KOh man! I made some unrefutable points here. No, that's fine with me if your scared. Just kidding, K…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 11 2010,10:33)So, the word “begotten” in reference to Jesus had nothing to do with His coming into being. It had to do with His becoming IN His existence as a man. It had to do with His becoming with power what He already was only by promise just as Kathi said!Therefore, the word “begotten” as it applies to Jesus does…[Read more]

Hey Jack and Kathi,Something came to me today, and I thought I'd share it with you.Jack says:Now here is the death blow to your Arain goo ga goo ga. In Exodus 23:20-25 Jehovah said that He will send His Messenger to bring the people into the land that He has prepared for them. Then in verse 25 Jehovah Himself calls His Messenger by the name…[Read more]

Hi Kathi,Wow, we're approaching WJ size posts here!     I'll keep it short.You said:Quote Sure, He could have begat a daughter but He still would have begotten her so that He could save us and without her He couldn't save us. You miss the point.  He didn't have to create us at all, let alone save us in any particular manner.  The fact that He cho…[Read more]

Hi Dennison,How are you my friend?  I hope well.You said:Quote Adam: was compared to Christ whom is perfect, who didnt sin.  The second Adam.  Compared?  Or was it more like “contrasted”?   You said:Quote Jesus Cannot do anything without the Father according to scripture. God chose to do everything through his Son. Perfection. Well said.  The…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 08 2010,15:06)Hi Mike,How about just replacing the pronouns with the noun/proper noun that they represent in verses Zech 2:8-13…5 verses.Quote Zech 2:8-138 For thus says the Lord of hosts, “After glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye. 9 “For…[Read more]

Hi Kathi,I have seen how the spirit works through you, I think.  I have had the priviledge of watching you school WJ and Roo in the prototokos thread.  Your arguments are clear and concise and scripturally founded.  I truly believe you are being guided.Then I come back to this thread and notice that your arguments are silly, nonsensical, and un…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 09 2010,16:36)Huh? I didn't realise I had an obligation to follow you around the threads answering your inane and ill-conceived questions. I thought KJ, WJ and LU answered you pretty well, what do you want from me exactly?Hi Paul,I thought you'd never ask!  What I want from you is:  1.  ReadWe believe in One God, the Fa…[Read more]