Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,13:17)You are lowering yourself t8. I was simply saying that Christ in His pre-existent condition could not have been a son of God because only men (humans) are sons of God.Again a cheap shot.Why do you persist in this “only mankind are sons of God” nonsense? You have been scripturally shown by Dennison and JA…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,13:11)Mikeboll said:Quote I am also having trouble figuring out what he meant when he said the Father was the “begetter of the only begotten Son”.Mike, Eusebius was struggling in his Christology. My textbook sources indicate that he was very concerned about being a peacemaker of Trinitarians and Arians. He…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,09:56)TO ALL:From the Jodi Lee thread:Keith,IF Mike has interpreted fragmented qoutes from Eusebius correctly, then it is clear that Eusebius did not stand by what he believed. For he signed the Nicean Creed which condemned Arianism and resulted in his friend Arius being anathematized and going into exile.Is…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,13:05)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2010,13:01)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 18 2010,02:41)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 16 2010,22:35)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,05:44)What is being disputed is Mike and Kathi insist that the words “firstborn” (prōtotokos) and “begotten” (monogenes) in reference to Jesus is…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 18 2010,02:56)The same John who penned these words spoke of the Word that was with God and was God who became (ginomai-came into being) flesh just 2 chapters earlier!And he did become flesh, WJ. Let's refer to your hero Ignatius again for this one.Glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who by Him has…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 18 2010,02:41)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 16 2010,22:35)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,05:44)What is being disputed is Mike and Kathi insist that the words “firstborn” (prōtotokos) and “begotten” (monogenes) in reference to Jesus is proof that he had a beginning or better yet that an asexual God brings birth to…[Read more]

Hi WJ,You said:Quote Was the term “Monogenes” ever given to Jesus before his natural birth?  Not that scripture records.  But John says he is the “only begotten god”.  And your buddy Ignatius says the Father is “unbegotten” and the Son was begotten by the Father before the worlds.  And Jesus says the Father GAVE His only begotten Son and SENT him…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ June 17 2010,17:53)Kathi, KJ, all,Know this and understand this:Anyone, everyone who is without sin, in the eyes of the Father, is a 'Son of God'.Adam was the firstborn/begotten human Son of God, then he sinned and thereby losing the 'firstborn: first in rank order' (but not first born by human birth)Jesus was born/ begotten…[Read more]

Any proof that when the Son of Man is spoken of by anybody, there is proof that it is Jesus who is spoken of. Don't you get what Paul asked me to do? I'm asking him to do the same.mike

Any proof that when the Son of Man is spoken of by anybody, there is proof that it is Jesus who is spoken of. Don't you get what Paul asked me to do? I'm asking him to do the same.mike

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 17 2010,06:14)Paul said that it was Christ they tempted. (1 cor. 10:9). Ergo….How do you figure that?  Just curious.  The Greek says “kurios” in my interlinear.And this is the first to third person wording Jesus uses.  He must have learned this also from his Father and God. Matthew 19:28 NIV Jesus said to them, “I te…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,14:46)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2010,12:22)Hi Dennison, Sorry, bro.  There is nothing in those scriptures that says Jesus is this “Son of Man” he keeps talking about in the third person.peace and love,mikeI didnt say that scripture specifically say that Jesus was the Son of Man, But Jesus and Scripture…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,14:46)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2010,12:22)Hi Dennison, Sorry, bro.  There is nothing in those scriptures that says Jesus is this “Son of Man” he keeps talking about in the third person.peace and love,mikeI didnt say that scripture specifically say that Jesus was the Son of Man, But Jesus and Scripture…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ June 17 2010,06:17)Thanks for that – I do think that it is time that these “blocking” issues are put to bed.Amen to that, brother.What do you say we all stop “blocking” and take the words for what they actually say?Jesus told Nicodemus that God “GAVE” His only begotten Son.  You who think begotten is a title Jesus recieved…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,05:44)What is being disputed is Mike and Kathi insist that the words “firstborn” (prōtotokos) and “begotten” (monogenes) in reference to Jesus is proof that he had a beginning or better yet that an asexual God brings birth to a god!Hi WJ,And isn't it funny how the “early experts” that you guys keep posting…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ June 16 2010,17:00)Is this concept repeated elsewhere in Scriptures?Can anyone, someone give one other example, please?Hi JA,It's repeated many times.  But what you fail to understand, even though it's been pointed out very clearly by Kathi, is that EVERY time this is the case, it's no secret.  The scripture plainly explain t…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,13:46)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 15 2010,12:48)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,05:50)Kathi said:Quote The Son didn't stop being a son to become a son in the flesh.It was by becoming flesh that Jesus became a Son. Paul said that he was “born according to the seed of David and decreed to be the Son of God”…[Read more]

All good points. I can't wait to address them in our debate.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,13:55)Its better becasue its formal and points can actually validate.I don't know, Dennison. What we end up with is you, a mere man, deciding how many “debate points” we each won. How does that help us get to the bottom of what scripture really means? Here is the problem as I see it (and I'm sure the…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 17 2010,13:28)Quit being ridiculous. I also gave evidence that “monogenes” simply meant “only” or “one of a kind” (see our debate). I also gave instances where the LXX uses “monogenes” in place of the Hebrew “yachid” which always means “one” or “only.” So I have used an example that is not so good. That doesn't get you…[Read more]