Quote (Lightenup @ June 18 2010,16:17)I'd like to see a debate between Mike and Paul…that would be interesting!FINE

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,15:22)Quote Just forget it guys.  I don't feel like debating within a format anyway.Backing out Mike? That's very hypocritical after you accused Jack from running away from you all over the forum.Paul, is that really an honest quote of the statement I made? I'm a moderator now – do you want a brick, mister? …[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,16:57)Quote (Lightenup @ June 18 2010,16:17)I'd like to see a debate between Mike and Paul…that would be interesting!Mike debates with Paul (the NT writer) all the time…..

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 19 2010,12:06)Quote Of course you are, Paul.  “Moving on”?  I call it running away.  In fact, I like the term I came up with for Roo – Hit and run.You pour out all of your thoughts, which I take my time to answer, (hit) and then you refuse to answer my points that refute yours down to the point of drivel (run).Like I told yo…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ June 19 2010,12:08)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 19 2010,11:49)t8, I don't believe the devil is in the details of scripture.  The Bible is the exception to that rule, right?What I mean by that statement is that our yes is yes and our no is no.Some people here have to justify their doctrine with other details.e.g., scripture says that for…[Read more]

Bump for WJ and Paul.  Roo, you're excused because you keep thinking I quoted Eusebius here.   Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 18 2010,02:41)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 16 2010,22:35)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2010,05:44)What is being disputed is Mike and Kathi insist that the words “firstborn” (prōtotokos) and “begotten” (monogenes) in r…[Read more]

Bump for WJ, Roo and PaulHi WJ,You said:Quote Was the term “Monogenes” ever given to Jesus before his natural birth?  Not that scripture records.  But John says he is the “only begotten god”.  And your buddy Ignatius says the Father is “unbegotten” and the Son was begotten by the Father before the worlds.  And Jesus says the Father GAVE His onl…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 19 2010,11:52)I'm going to decline replying to this post to show you it's possible to let someone else have the final say Mike. I feel like I've written enough to make the points I wanted to make and I'm moving on.Of course you are, Paul. “Moving on”? I call it running away. In fact, I like the term I came up with for Roo…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,17:01)Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2010,15:38)Hi MB, Don't play in their playground where they can trip you up.Also, beware of the devil in the details.Hi t8 and Nick,It might seem like I'm giving them to much edge so they can counter with good points. JA has pm'd me about doing this. But I look at it this way: I will…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,17:00)Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,15:15)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2010,14:41)I spent an hour answering this already, then when I went to preview, I lost everything.  So this is the slimmed-down “I'm angry” version.This is super-annoying. I sympathise with you here.That has never happened to me and I can't think of why…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 18 2010,16:52)Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2010,15:34)goodnight pagan,What!Did you not know that triune gods are pagan in origin? They are not of Judeao-Christian origin, Paul.

Hi Paul,You said:Quote There is only one one issue to address here Mike – did Paul's use of the term “so-called” carry a different connotation to the every day parlance? Not at all.  I thought I answered this.  Maybe it was in the post that got lost?  And guess who's included in those so-called “gods”?  Men, angels, Satan AND Jesus.  Before Roo…[Read more]

Hi Paul,You said:Quote For instance if I call you a so-called christian my inference is you are not a real christian.No, I mean if I call you the President, although you may indeed be the president of the big word users club, you are not THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.You said:Quote Oh, you mean a mighty one like YHWH in Isaiah…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2010,14:53)Hi MB,If you offer the words of a carnal man you cannot expect them to be respected but you can expect to be dragged further from truth by the experts in vain and useless theologyHi Nick,While I clearly understand and appreciate your point, I don't think it harms me to look up some of the big words Paul uses…[Read more]

Correction: we did discuss firstborn, but the focus was more on the “of every creature”. My mistake.mike

Thank you Paul, it IS a good list.  I made it.   Jack, if I said you picked pasa ktisis and it grew to include monogenes, but it was really the other way around, I'm dreadfully sorry for my mistake.  Did my mistake defame your name in any way?  You yell that I'm a bald faced liar because I got the ONLY two things we really ever discussed mixed up…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 18 2010,14:30)Hi MB,The words of Eusebius carry no more weight than those of any carnal man. Let the lost theologians debate his words and prefer the anointed ones.Hi Nick,No, but when stranded in Mexico and needing a translator, are you going to use the person who speaks Spanish and English, or the person who speaks…[Read more]

Hi Paul,I spent an hour answering this already, then when I went to preview, I lost everything.  So this is the slimmed-down “I'm angry” version.You said:Quote A question for you…“For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords (1 Corinthians 8:5)Why does Paul use the prase…[Read more]

t8,They are related. A letter from Eusebius proves that “prototokos pasa ktisis” meant “firstborn of every creature” to him in 325 A.D. This whole thread is about WJ, Jack and Paul avoiding the letter that disproves their “new trinity scholar findings” that it only meant “preeminent over mankind” in NT days. mike

Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,13:24)I have set up a discussion on “Eusebius”, so we can move on with the “Protokos in colossians 1:15 means “preeminent” topic.Hi t8,I started an Eusebius thread, but Jack thinks he is more in control if the thread has his name as starter. So he moved our discussion about Eusebius to this thread. Eusebius has…[Read more]