Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 10 2010,08:51)Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2010,11:22)Hi WJ,You asked:Quote Does Jesus claim that he has all “Authority and Power”  mean he has less “Authority and Power” than the Father has?Yes.  And I think many scriptures clarify this.  But just the fact that Jesus is at the right hand of the One he calls “my Go…[Read more]

WJ, did YOU forget THIS part?While gennao means “to be born” along with some other things, yalad does not have in it's definition these three:b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someonec) of God making Christ his sond) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's workSo since Paul was quoting…[Read more]

I'm sorry Keith, but was this:Wrong, because it proves what I have said all along that you cannot say “Monogenes” is proof Jesus had a beginning. part of your original point A?  No.  Was this?Is the term “monogenes” (only, single of its kind) referring to Jesus proof that Jesus had a beginning before he came in the flesh?Again, No.You choose, p…[Read more]

Jack said:Quote If Genesis 1:26 denies that God is a plural unity, then by conesquence it denies that the Father is God. For we must presuppose that Jesus is the God of the Genesis narrative on the basis that Jesus alone is the “Word” who spoke all things into being.His stand seems to be either God is a plurality of persons or the Father isn't God…[Read more]

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Quote (Oxy @ July 07 2010,20:08)Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,19:48)Hi Oxy,jn.16.12-14That's exactly my point Nick, the Spirit has borne witness to the things the Lord has taught me.Hi Oxy, Could you ask the spirit why Jesus says the Father is the only true God, when Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also God?Can you ask the spirit for me why the…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ July 09 2010,01:22)Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2010,14:12)Quote (Oxy @ July 07 2010,16:48)So you can see the He the Holy Spirit breathes, has a voice, comforts, hears, guides and speaks Sounds pretty convincing to me.Hi Oxy,Convincing of what?  Which one of those scriptures say to you, “The Holy Spirit is God Himself and should be…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ July 09 2010,01:22)Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 08 2010,14:12)Quote (Oxy @ July 07 2010,16:48)So you can see the He the Holy Spirit breathes, has a voice, comforts, hears, guides and speaks Sounds pretty convincing to me.Hi Oxy,Convincing of what?  Which one of those scriptures say to you, “The Holy Spirit is God Himself and should be…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2010,10:38)Can you answer that Jesus told Caiaphas the high priest that he would see the Son of Man coming in the clouds (Matt. 26:64)? Most anti-trinitarians here believe that when we die we cease to exist. This means that Jesus would have had to return before Caiaphas died. How could he see the Son of Man coming in…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2010,02:52)If you believe as Mike that a person ceases to exist when he dies, then Jesus would have had to come in the clouds before Caiaphas died in order for Him to see it.Hey Jack,What does this say?Revelation 2:8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:These are the words of him who is the First and the Last,…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ July 08 2010,15:41)mikeno ,i do not agree with KJ that the kingdom is here or as already come,and “the kingdom in you “only means that if you become a true worshiper of God then you have picked your kingdom, no??because if not ,why are we changing our self to be approved to be able to live in that kingdom of God and so become…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ July 09 2010,11:50)I know you are addressing this to Gene, but here is the scripture, KJV:Quote 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and…[Read more]

One more thought, Gene.10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.Who was in the world that was made through him?  It is Jesus that John speaks of.  Was the world made through some “foreordained” non existent-yet “thought”?mike

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2010,15:46)JA………….And yet not one scripture where Jesus or the disciples ever said He existed as a real (Being) of some kind before His Birth here on earth.  Don't you find that kinda odd. And are you saying Jesus was saying  “a son of man” existed some where else before, Because Jesus said He was a son of M…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2010,11:01)Hey Mike,Once in a while you show a sincere interest in truth. According to the TWOT the word “yalad” when written in different forms means different things. The Hiphil form indicates actual paternity. But the Qal form simply indicates a relationship of love.”Thus Ps. 2:7 is not causative, but refers to a…[Read more]

Hi WJ,The point by point was clearly explained when I started this thread. It was re-explained many, many times after that. It was expalined yet again when t8 moved us to a debate thread. This is how it works. You made a large post. Instead of answering all of your points in one larger post, I thought it would suit both of us better to…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ July 09 2010,01:07)Pick on someone with your own delusion!Right back at ya!

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 09 2010,04:40)WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll:Quote It’s the same word used for the “begetting” of the saints which already exist…For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have “begotten (gennaō)” you through the gospel. 1 Cor 4:15Keith,Absolutely! T…[Read more]

WJ,You said:Quote But you need unambiguous proof that is what the word “firstborn” in relation to Jesus means.Why would the understanding and statement of a noted expert on the scriptures that you yourself touted as a prominent figure in the early church be considered ambiguous?  Because he disagrees with you?    He seemed pretty sure of his be…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2010,03:03)Exactly!Conjecture seems to be the way Mike likes to work, i.e. “There is no water in the glass”, mikes response, “but just because there is no water in the glass doesn't mean there wasn't any water in the glass”. Duh, that is not the contention, the fact is there is no water in the glass.But that is…[Read more]