Hi Kathi,Thanks for the support.     You know that we agree on most things scriptural……in fact I believe we agree on everything except you wanting to worship the Son of God along with God.  I know you are sharp, and I learn alot from you.I believe that Jesus, while sharing a nature with the One who begot him, is the “firstborn of all cr…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 22 2010,20:38)Gene. You must be joking.If I come in a taxi to your house, it certainly doesn't negate that I existed before I got in the taxi. In fact it supports the opposite view, that you did exist.In fact t8, I've already showed him this definition for “come” in 1 John 4:2,erchomai 1) to come   1a) of persons      1a1) to…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Aug. 14 2010,19:26)spirit beings can't die, remember?Hi Georg,I almost always interpret scripture the same was as you and t8 seem to, and agree with what you've posted to Gene here.But can you tell me which scriptures tell you that spirit creatures cannot die?peace and love,mike

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 14 2010,18:54)David,You do greatly err. There are THREE ways to become a “son” in scripture:1. by procreation2. by adoption3. by appointmentDavid became the son of God by appointment:David, don't buy into Jack's trinity biased assertion for a second.He is right about the three ways to become a son.  But we must…[Read more]

……….continued.We all agree (I think) that Jesus was the Son of God in a way that distiguished him from all of the other “sons of God” – of which we are all a part.  But how did he come to be “THE Son of God”?Scripture says he was “the only begotten Son of God”.  But scripture also says he was “the firstborn of all creation” and “the b…[Read more]

Keith's opening post is misleading.  We need to address some scriptural issues, as David has so aptly pointed out, and then believe those scriptures……not our own “wishes” for what we want Jesus to be.  1.  Most people assume that procreate means a man and a woman having sex to form a child………….FALSEThis is just a diversion tactic by th…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,02:31)The decree was made by the Father after his resurrection “Thou art my Son, This day I have begotten you”… (Heb 1:5 – Pss 2:7 – Acts 13:33 – Heb 5:5) This is also a scriptural fact.The decree was told by Jesus 700 years before he was born in flesh. The fact that Paul quoted Psalm 2:7 to show people…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2010,14:34)Mike……….You have  lost every debate and have not yet produce any sound solid scripture that back up Your points.Again Gene,Those are just your words…….why would they have any bearing on what we're discussing?  Would it make me automatically “right” if I began my posts with, “You have lost every d…[Read more]

Hi Dennison,I already know your summary, and I gave you mine that God starts talking in 21, then John goes with the angel, then God finishes talking in 22, then Jesus starts talking.We did the “summary” thing pages ago.  Since then, I've been trying to get past the first couple of verses in 21, so we can use that context to find out who's talking…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ Aug. 22 2010,08:07)I want to know where you got the terms “in his presence”.Hi Martian,Thanks for asking. It's about time we delve into something more than “I think's”. BTW, I didn't substitute my own words, “in your presence” is in more than one translation.The Greek word is “para”. NETBible says this:Joh 17:51tn Or “in your p…[Read more]

Hi Dennison,This is more of a “flood” tactic than a response to the issue at hand, which is “when is Jesus ever called God?”You are doing what you did in the post which inspired me to break all your assertions down point by point and start this thread in the first place.In just this last post, you have claimed without any scriptural backing these…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 22 2010,07:06)Mike, you know full well what question I am referring to.But just for the hardheaded: the one I asked you in the previous post.Was Jesus called 'Jesus' before he came to earth such that he says,'…that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.'Hi JA,First, I had no idea this was the…[Read more]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 22 2010,06:24)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2010,14:06)Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 22 2010,05:28)Mike,Did you ever answer that question? Third time of asking?And once again, since you don't list quotes or scriptures, I have no idea what question you're talking about.  Just like when you make claims that angels “produced” men's…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ Aug. 22 2010,03:41)However, every single scripture that Mike has posted has been shown to be weak on preexistence. He will not admit it but he has lost every debate on the matter.Okay Mr. “dad, can I have the money I had in your presence even though I wasn't really there at the time”!

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2010,03:01)martian…………Mike i think is truly struggling with his position on Preexistence and is considering all we are posting and hope fully is praying for GOD to guide His mind into the truth. I think he is a decent person brother he just has been indoctrinated as T8 and Irene have and that is hard to…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,14:17)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2010,13:15)Hi All,Ready for another one?John 8:38 (New International Version)38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”Does this not clearly say that the person Jesus had “seen” things “in the Father's…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 21 2010,01:17)Mike………..God was PRESENT through the (CHRISTOS) or anointing on Jesus. Jesus spoke words being revealed to Him the same as the prophets did.So then you should easily able to show me the scriptures where any of the prophets said they speak what they had seen in the Father's presence, right?Let's have…[Read more]

Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 21 2010,03:21)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2010,21:15)Hi All,Ready for another one?John 8:38 (New International Version)38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”Does this not clearly say that the person Jesus had “seen” things “in the Father's…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 20 2010,15:51)Mikewhat make me know that they are not truthful his that they always discuss a scripture quote, but never the impact of the scripture in relation of Gods will.or turning around the meaning of a word what at the end remains the same.their intention is clear it is not the truth of God they seek but their own…[Read more]

Hi Gene,You keep quoting the “alone” verse. It is true that you and everything else we know exists ONLY because of God. He ALONE is responsible for everything that exists.But scripture clearly says He did it THROUGH His Son. And we know for a fact that he created you ALONE, because without him, you wouldn't exist. But He did it THROUGH Jesus,…[Read more]