Okay Gene, let's continue then.1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation,  1:16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him.1:17 He himself is befo…[Read more]

And out of the 8 translations you posted Kathi, only 2 use the “monogenes huios” text.  Of the 6 that use the “monogenes theos” text, isn't it interesting that only ONE of them translates the words as they were written……”only begotten god”?mike

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 25 2010,07:05)The NASB translates it as 'only begotten' which was gutsy on their part and I applaud them because I believe that it is true to the intent of the author.Hi Kathi,The JW's NWT also translates it as “only begotten god”. It's what the words actually say, so why not? The translations that bend over backwards to…[Read more]

Gene, Martian, barley, marty……..? Are you out there?mike

Bump for Gene:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.15He is the image of the invisible God,…….Can…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 25 2010,06:02)MikeWhats the difference?”Before me never never begotten another God”and after me none existCan you now see clearly that none exist before and after him?WJHi Keith,I can see clearly that none WERE BEFORE Him, and none WILL BE AFTER Him.He is the first and the last, the beginning and the end…….get…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 23 2010,15:24)Mike,no offense, but what are you trying to say? are you saying that 43:10 eludes that God can  apprently “be formed” or “beget” another God?Dennison, No offense,But if you want me to answer your posts, post them so they make sense.  Use punctuation correctly, and maybe take a second to proof read them t…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 23 2010,15:40)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 23 2010,13:40)In fact Shimmer,This is exactly what the Greek from the LXX says:emprosyen……………………….before mou…………………………………me ouk………………………………….never egeneto……………………………begotten…[Read more]

IMO, a closing is not necessary. I say open it up and make it a public thread.What say you Jack?mike

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2010,13:55)He said He did it (ALONE) and BY HIMSELF, now interestingly you are denying that, Perhaps you don not know what (ALONE and BY HIMSELF Means.Hi Gene,You are a part of creation, right? Did God ALONE cause you to exist?Does that mean He couldn't have used your parents to create you THROUGH?And please stop…[Read more]

Hi Dennison,I wasn't even half way thru you post and it was obvious that you worked hard on it. You did a great job too. Let me absorb it all, and I'll reply soon.peace and love,mike

Well hello there Professor Fun,While I sometimes call Jesus God's “co-creator”, I always put it in quotes, because as Gene is quick to remind us, God ALONE created the heavens and the earth.  And Rev 4:11 bears this out,11″You are worthy, our Lord and God,   to receive glory and honor and power,   for you created all things,      and by your…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Aug. 23 2010,12:36)Mike!  Georg has so little time, and does not come on here to often, so I will answer your question.. I believe what He meant was that Christ will never die again  now, not that He never died as a Human Being.  I know that is not what He believes that He never died.  Immortality was His reward for dying for us.…[Read more]

In fact Shimmer,This is exactly what the Greek from the LXX says:emprosyen……………………….before mou…………………………………me ouk………………………………….never egeneto……………………………begotten allov…………………………………another…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 23 2010,11:52)Of course, scripture say's God is Spirit, Scripture says no God's were formed before of after our God, but, hey, here, anything goes,No Ma'am,Scripture does NOT say that.  Is 43:10 says that no gods were formed before God, and none shall exist after Him.It does NOT, NOT, NOT, say no gods shall “be formed” after…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 23 2010,09:43)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 23 2010,01:53)Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 23 2010,07:36)should i add another fallacy?stating what is not said in scriptures,or stating an idea that is not said in scriptures as an refutation to what is said in scriptures. for example: Shimmer qouted:Is 43:10 Mike said it doesnt…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2010,07:54)Regarding the 'pas' being in the genitive form, the NET Bible note says this:The genitive construction πάσης κτίσεως (pash” ktisew”) is a genitive of subordination and is therefore translated as “over all creation”I don't know about the genitive of subordination in Greek so, I have to think they know  what th…[Read more]

Hi David and Kathi,David, you are spot on with all you said in your last post. You and I and Kathi would make a very formiddible scriptural team against the non-preexisters and the trinitarians if we could stay on the topic and avoid the “holy spirit is a chick” and “Jesus is God in every sense that God is God” issues.If we all just stuck to…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 23 2010,07:36)should i add another fallacy?stating what is not said in scriptures,or stating an idea that is not said in scriptures as an refutation to what is said in scriptures. for example: Shimmer qouted:Is 43:10 Mike said it doesnt say beget, or pro create and somehow thats proof to refute what shimmer said.…[Read more]

Hi Dennison,You said:Quote And i know thats why your trying so hard to focus on that.  Truth is, right after the one seated on the throne speaks, the angel takes him away.  There for anything that was said, ended there. Exactly.  And my point is that since no new speaker is mentioned at the start of 22, and since we already KNOW that it is God wh…[Read more]