And if you read my response to Georg……you have your answer, right? mike

Hi Gene,Mike:Quote Did God create you THROUGH your parents or not, Gene?Gene:Quote Mike……..Rather God did it by forming me with Clay as in the Case of Adam or pulling a rib out of someone , or forming me in a womb, is irrelevant , it still is GOD alone and by himself who is creating and doing it.That's exactly what I believe, Gene.  Not so…[Read more]

Quote (davidbfun @ Sep. 06 2010,04:21)Did Jesus not create us after God pro-created him as the firstborn of all creation?No, God alone created us.  He chose to do that THROUGH His Son, Jesus.David:Quote Is not worship giving “glory and honor” to someone?  Or is it ok to give Jesus glory, honor and bow our knees to him, but not “worship” him?I c…[Read more]

Quote (davidbfun @ Sep. 06 2010,04:14)It sounds as if you want people to STOP saying that they “worship” Jesus and say that they “love” him?Hi David,No, what JA and I have both been explaining for months is that both the Hebrew and the Greek words for “worship” can mean “bowing down before a king” OR “homage paid only to God”.When not used of the…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 05 2010,22:33)BTW Mike,Peter was trying to stand in the way of Jesus gaining the victory over satan by trying to keep Him from the cross, that was what Jesus was addressing, not the adoration given Him.Also, what is the 'parable of the tenants' that you mentioned in another post?Hi Kathi,Satan is also gaining victory…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 05 2010,22:26)Mike,You are sorry that you 'angered me.'  I've lost sleep tonight because of you calling me 'satan' and a stumbling block…being swayed by the mind of a man that believes Jesus is the second created angel.Kathi,I was paralelling the Peter/Jesus conversation.  Jesus “did NOT think equality with God was s…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 05 2010,16:45)Mike,”Worship Jehovah your God and serve Him ONLY”Because of that…I worship HIS Son also.Because of that… I serve the Son also.What does that even mean Kathi?Scriptures:  “Worship BLACK and serve BLACK ONLY.”Kathi: “Because of the above command, I will worship and serve both BLACK AND BLUE”.  mike

Kathi:Quote The Jews wouldn't have killed the Son if He was just being honored like David.  The Son was being worshiped as divine and they KILLED Him.  Is that really what you think it was about?  You are wrong, for in one breath, you say, “What do you think those Pharisees should have done when they saw Jesus being 'worshipped' by the formerly bl…[Read more]

Hi WJ,I forgot that we also have a scripture where Jesus tells us to start our prayers with “hallowed be your name”. What “name” do you think Jesus meant?mike

Hi Pierre,I learn so much more about scripture because of people who DON'T believe like I do than I do because of people here that do.For example, I agree with your understanding of scripture on every post of yours I've read.  But if I said, “Pierre, do you think Jesus pre-existed?” and you say, “Yes”, then what is left?  Will we then test each o…[Read more]

ps, this isn't only for me to ask a question. You answer mine and ask one of your own in each post.mike

Hi Dennison,SF:Quote we finally agree about 21.   Have I ever said it wasn't God who is the Alpha and Omega in 21?  I say it is God every time.SF:Quote No, I think thats the closet concept we have of God.In other words the Knowable God Please clarify.  I can't see how that answers my question.  I hold that God alone has been immutable forever.  Je…[Read more]

Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 01 2010,21:05)Hi all,This passage created mess among Christian believers. The so called pre-existence of Jesus was meant by this passage can never make any difference who believes God alone can be the creator if at all He created this universe. Christianity wants Jesus to be the co-creator so that they can make God. Is this…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 04 2010,03:25)You preexistences believe GOD did it (THROUGH) Jesus but not one scripture show Jesus Creating anything , but many say GOD did , that alone should cause you some concern, so you come up with this (CO-CREATION) ideas , pure hogwash.Gene, Scripture says God created everything alone, but it says He did it…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 04 2010,03:36)the Preexistences change it somewhat to say God did it (through) Jesus but they still are robbing God of His Glory which he said He gives to (NO) Man and the includes Jesus THE SON OD MAN ,Hi Gene,We don't CHANGE it to say that……it just says that.  I would NEVER rob God of His glory and would never…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 05 2010,14:09)Mike,Where have I ever said that I worship the Son AS I worship the Father?  I worship the Son as the only begotten God and I worship the Father as the only unbegotten God…can you not get that?  You admit that it is ok to 'worship' Him as the Son of God…that is what I do!!!  When are you and JA going to &#…[Read more]

Thank you again Gene,I'm glad you are at least attempting to DIRECTLY answer my points……thank you.You said:Quote Mike…> Ok lets deal with the (LAST) part. So he was made in the likeness of Men. Tell us this are you made in the likeness of Men also?. If not please tell us what likeness you are of them.Yes Gene, I WAS made in the likeness of a…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 04 2010,21:11)But, just one question. If the Holy Spirit is a woman, then didn't she then have a Lesbian relationship with Mary. How do two women create a child (two parts if the same question)Hi JA,Absolutely brilliant! I'm STILL laughing. And not only was it funny, but a complete shut down of the “holy spirit is a…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 04 2010,21:43)Why are there so many threads that ask the same question?GeorgHi Georg,Ask your wife……it's all her fault!     Actually, I got tired of these non-preexisters ignoring all the scriptures she was posting in the original Pre-existent thread, so I broke the thread down into a scripture by scripture discussion.  …[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 04 2010,04:17)MIKE……..So that is just talk rightEph 1:10….> That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together )IN ONE) (ALL THINGS) IN Christ both which are in heaven and which are on earth; even (IN) him: vers 1:11…> In whom also we have obtained and inheritance, being predestined…[Read more]