Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2010,09:58)JA………Quite simple read Genesis 1 and allow common sense to go to work Hey Gene, read John 17:5 and “allow common sense to go to work”! Read Phil 2:6-7 and “allow common sense to go to work”!peace and love,mike

Come on Gene! You know it has to do with the context. Jehovah is the God OF Christians…..does that mean Jehovah came FROM Christians? It says Jesus is the Root and Branch of David. Do you agree “branch” means Jesus was after David? If so, then if you are honest with yourself, you'll also have to agree that “root” means Jesus was before…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2010,10:19)MIke……..John was (exactly) like us and any other Human being as well as Jesus also. GOD can give anyone He so choses anything He desires to. that Does not make that person any better then anyone else nor makes Him any different then we are. Can't you see how screwed up your thinking is becoming? Now…[Read more]

Good post and scriptural support Ed.

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,09:20)Mike,Christ is the power of God so how could he be less powerful than God?1 Cor 1:2424 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. NASUWell I don't know Kathi…….the power Jesus does have was given him from his God.  The scriptures say that even…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,09:16)Mike,And what about David…he had a son that became a king and was given the same honor as his father did he not?Yes Kathi,Solomon recieved the honor of being King of Israel after David had died. Did Jehovah die?Besides, the point you were arguing was “same nature – same honor”. David and the man who…[Read more]

Kathi:Quote The Father and the Son are not #1 and #1 over all creation, they are #1 and #2 over all creation.Very good.Kathi:Quote They are both pre-eminent over all creation.  If pre-eminent means almighty, ok,Not so good.  Your second statement contradicts your first here.  “Almighty” means “the MIGHTIEST of the mighty”, so there can only be on…[Read more]

SF:Quote 1.Your talking about the Son as if he was created.And why wouldn't I? Is there a scripture that implies something different?SF:Quote 2. We were created in the likenss of Gods image, but we were never the exact image of God.Actually, scripture says we were made in “God's image”, not “the LIKENESS” of that image. But the point is why…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2010,05:03)she quoting scriptures did you see and read it first ?if so then show were she is wrong if you can not, keep silent.PierreWell said Pierre.  And Gene, while you are actually attempting to answer scriptures instead of just repeating your wishes over and over, maybe you could actually respond to the part of…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,05:04)Mike,I didn't say that He was less than “God,” I said less than the Father (as God).  Jesus said, “the Father is greater than me.”  Jesus didn't say that “God is greater than me.”Jesus was the begotten God before He came in the flesh and while He was in the flesh and after He was resurrected.  He never st…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,04:57)Mike,How about choice #3#3 The one born of God first who is the only begotten true son of God Himself, not created nor made but begotten before the ages and all things were created through Him and apart from Him, nothing was created that was created. He is the only firstborn that has preeminence over all of…[Read more]

Hi Dennison,Great preparation and presentation! The whole lay out was well thought out and beautifully presented…….BUT…….SF:Quote The only biblical verse that ever eludes to the idea that Christ was created is that one verse. There is no other proof or hint otherwise. to make a belief based on one verse alone is the number one fallacy…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,15:41)Hi Mike,You assume that the term 'firstborn of all creation' is implying that the Son is created.  If I said that so and so was the 'Lord of all creation,' you wouldn't assume that implies that the 'Lord' is created would you?Kathi,”Firstborn of all creation”:1.  The one born first of all creation2.  Has no…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,15:18)Mike,1.  We know that Jesus emptied Himself and humbled Himself so that 'greater than' could mean as when 'in the flesh.'  2.  Or it could mean that the one that begat before the ages would naturally be greater in that sense than the one that was begotten.  3.  Aside from that, after the Son was given all thin…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,16:10)Mike,You realize that Eusebius worships the Son as God:Hi Kathi,Could you post the link for me?mike

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2010,08:31)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2010,13:38)Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 09 2010,16:31)The focus continues to be the Angels in verse 7, then starting in verse 8 the addressing switches once again again back to “the Son” with the focus also switching from the angels to “God” and his kingdom.so: 'But unto the Son' therefore mea…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 11 2010,10:57)Peter put it exactly right Jesus was “FOREORDAINED (BUT) was MANIFESTED IN (OUR) TIME”. It is Just that simple why don't people believe that.Hi Gene,Here's how the NIV puts it:20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.All that says is that Jesus is…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ Sep. 10 2010,01:59)Any one with any common sense will know that first hand knowledge is going to be superior then something told to us (even by God)So were John's visions in Rev “first hand knowledge”? He SAW with his own eyes what was to come. Didn't that give John an advantage over the rest of us? He experienced knowledge…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 11 2010,10:23)1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. God knows we are sinners, and we “will” sin.1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins (ask for forgiveness), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we think, because Jesus…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,13:43)No God could be God that wasn't of the divine nature always and besides that God would have to be the creator and not the created.And this is an important point you bring up Kathi. Jesus IS “the created”. Jesus said so and so did Paul. And scripture doesn't say that Jesus is “the creator”, does it? It says…[Read more]