Kathi:Quote Mike,I am sure your setting aside so carelessly what the early church fathers wrote is not pleasing to God if they were His laborers and worked for Him. Whether they were His laborers is what we need the Spirit to discern. The Spirit is telling me that if they start writing things that blatantly disagree with what scripture…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 20 2010,06:47)Mike,Athanasius pretty well captures the meaning of firstborn of all creation:Quote 3. He is then by nature an Offspring, perfect from the Perfect, begotten before all the hills (Prov. viii. 25), that is before every rational and intelligent essence, as Paul also in another place calls Him ‘first-born of all c…[Read more]

Kathi:Quote Mike,You know that you and Eusebius aren't in agreement.  He worships the Son as God and he says that the Father and the Son are the creator.So what you meant to say is that we aren't in agreement on every single thing he wrote.  And John 1:1 says the Word was god, which I now know means “the Word was a god”, or “mighty one” or “…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 19 2010,18:11)I Just think the point of the SPECFIC scripture you mentioned was in reference in man made images that Men worshipped.I disagree.  I think the whole point is that we have never seen God in ANY form whatsoever, so don't worship ANYTHING that we have seen take a form of any kind.  That includes “men”.  …[Read more]

Quote (martian @ Sep. 20 2010,04:03)To the point of this thread.Your doctrine’s fruit is doubt of Christ as our perfect example. Questions about God’s intentions for a pre-existent son. Contradictions with scripture that says He is like us (his brethren) in EVERY way or that he was human at all.Hi Martian,My fruit is that I not only follow and bel…[Read more]

bumpQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 17 2010,19:40)There is no “HE SAITH” in verse 8; that was added by the translators?Verse 9 clearly indicates Jesus' God is God. Why do you let verse 8 confuse you?Hi Ed,The “he saith” is implied, and you prove that point by admitting it is Jesus who's God has anointed with the oil of gladness.”Therefore God (Jesus), YOUR God…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,05:41)i am a two finger reporter(so slow) My dad use to call that his “hunt and peck” method of typing.

Keith:Quote Mike I did check and the English translation of the LXX and the Masoretic text have it the same.Keith, do you agree that both the original Hebrew and the LXX use the word “day” in the text?You are missing the whole point here.  Is it over your head, or are you just pretending it is?  Jesus' BEGINNING was from DAYS of eternity. (…[Read more]

And what do you think Ignatius means by this?Jesus Christ His only-begotten Son, and “the first-born of every creature,” but of the seed of David according to the flesh.I take it to mean Jesus is the first creature that was ever created……BUT then again OF the seed of David ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.Kathi, there is no reason to think otherwise…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 19 2010,16:36)Hi Mike,I don't see Ignatius calling the Son a creation or Polycarp either.  Why do you think that is?But you DO see Eusebius calling him a creature…….so what's your point?  I don't really care what your early church fathers say Kathi.  WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE SAY?mike

Thanks Irene!mike

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2010,11:42)Barely rightly described what you do Mike trying to push your dogmas, and martian also spoke the truth you have failed to produced any reason for GOD to MORPH a Pre-earth being and pass him off as a real human being of some kind. So did Marty by the Way.In fact you are saying GOD does things without sound…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2010,13:06)Mike……..the context is not made clear by the last word brother it is made clear by the complete chapter zeroing in on just one word is a mistake Mike it cam get you into all kinds of wrong understandings in scriptures. Try to produce you logic from the complete text not just one word Brother .peace and…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 19 2010,12:41)It seems that you are not trying to understand, Mike.  You can't even admit that you can see my point of view.  Why is that?  Just the fact that you have changed the word from trunk to branch and tree to bush is telling that you are not wanting to show understanding.  It appears that way to me anyway, Mik…[Read more]

Kathi:Quote Hi Mike,The first offshoot of the first tree is not a part of the group of the offshoots of the bushes.  All offshoots are not equal  But scripture clearly says it is…..believe what you want.  I agree that all other trees are not even or equal.  God is the biggest tree.  Jesus is the second biggest tree, but make no mistake, he IS a…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 19 2010,04:46)Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: “though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool”. Isa 1:18Hi Keith,The way I understand it, our sins have been washed in the blood of the Lamb – someone other than God by the…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 17 2010,19:57)A. Again What translation are you using, and if you would like lets go back to the hebrew of this passage.im going to post KJV Det4:15Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: 16Lest ye…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 19 2010,03:16)Hi Mike,Are angels divine according to the JW's and do the angels have the nature of God according to them?  Still they think the Son was created and an angel so I don't know how they can think he has something other than an angelic nature.Hi Kathi,Isn't that exactly what scripture tells us…..the he was…[Read more]

Oh, and Pierre, sometimes I even break the other's post down into separate points, and answer them individually so it isn't all clustered together, like this:Pierre said:Quote hi mike To which I say, Hi Pierre.Pierre said:Quote thanks ,i will need a little practice but i thing i will make it.Cool.Pierre said:Quote PierreTo which I respond, peace…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 18 2010,16:38)hi mike thanks ,i will need a little practice but i thing i will make it.PierreI too believe you will make it.  I do it like this:Pierre said: Paste what you said here, then So it comes out like this:Pierre said:Quote hi mike thanks ,i will need a little practice but i thing i will make it.PierreEasy peasey,…[Read more]